Dps As Healer

[Miste]

Do you have links to the tests you did? I'd be curious to see numerical results, which were sadly lacking on Google search.

I don't have it anymore hence the past tense "had data" or yes I would have gladly shared it with you. Lost the hard drive it was saved on due to it deciding not to live anymore and since I am lame I didn't have a backup.

I was around at launch and leveled both AST and WHM to 60 before they unlocked Gordias Savage and while AST was still viable it was way more difficult to heal on and the SCH + AST combo my boyfriend and I were trying to manage at he time while progressing Gordias Savage was just frustratingly worse than WHM and SCH even though AST was supposed to be able to pair with either healer.

I attribute it to the fact that AST and SCH gets no party MND buff and it lowers both healers heals even more and lowers DPS.

ASTs regens were also lower (Aspected Benefic Regen was only 100 potency at launch. Later on they changed it to 140) and the fact that Collective Unconscious regen only worked if you channeled the bubble (and couldnt cast anything else) made it mostly useless for most things while WHM had Asylum that you could from a distance safely cast over the tanks whenever it was up.

Synastry had no healing potency buff on it so AST essentially had no Divine Seal all while having worse base healing potency than WHM already.

Lightspeed still made you instant cast but it cut all damage and healing output by 25% while in effect and did not reduce MP cost (they added that later and changed it so only damage is reduced).

The numbers didn't lie :x AST was extremely lacking in healing to the point where I was solo healing A1S Faust from 100% to 50% while my boyfriend on SCH only DPS'd then started healing at 50%. At the end of the fight he on SCH did double my healing even though he only healed for half the fight and I healed for pretty much all of it minus a bit of opener DPS.

I am not like super awesome best player or anything, but I don't suck really bad and I've been competent enough to clear almost all raids so far even if not close to world first etc.so skill is some of the factor since I am not a top tier world first player, but even with the skill I do have it was overly frustrating and stressful trying to heal with such low output compared to WHM and SCH.

Here is a link to some of the AST changes in the patch notes: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...7aff5b99d9fb32

[Ama_Hamada]

If he's joking then I applaud him, he fooled me.

I'm only fluent in dead memes

What happen?
Someone set us up the bomb
We get signal
What?
Main screen turn on
Its you!
How are you gentleman..
We now have cleric stance...
All your dps, healing are belong to us...
Healers will now deal most damage,
What you say?
You have no chance to survive, make your time
Ha ha ha

[Vexander]

If he's joking then I applaud him, he fooled me.

I'm only fluent in dead memes

They're jokes. I guess I'm one of the few here who browse imgur.

I used the Unpopular Opinion Puffin earlier. Then there was the Terrible Tiger. Also have one for Confession. Bear.



Just dropping some satire into a thread that takes itself too seriously. As long as a party clears the instance, all the difference between a healer DPS'ing and not DPS'ing does for me at the end of the day is determine if they get my Com or not.

[Ama_Hamada]

I was going to heal my party...
but then I took a cleric stance to the knee..
(how do you do spoiler tags again?)

[Lexia]

These threads
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4ztfrr8fls

[loreleidiangelo]

I don't have it anymore hence the past tense "had data" or yes I would have gladly shared it with you. Lost the hard drive it was saved on due to it deciding not to live anymore and since I am lame I didn't have a backup.

I was around at launch and leveled both AST and WHM to 60 before they unlocked Gordias Savage and while AST was still viable it was way more difficult to heal on and the SCH + AST combo my boyfriend and I were trying to manage at he time while progressing Gordias Savage was just frustratingly worse than WHM and SCH even though AST was supposed to be able to pair with either healer.

I attribute it to the fact that AST and SCH gets no party MND buff and it lowers both healers heals even more and lowers DPS.

ASTs regens were also lower (Aspected Benefic Regen was only 100 potency at launch. Later on they changed it to 140) and the fact that Collective Unconscious regen only worked if you channeled the bubble (and couldnt cast anything else) made it mostly useless for most things while WHM had Asylum that you could from a distance safely cast over the tanks whenever it was up.

Synastry had no healing potency buff on it so AST essentially had no Divine Seal all while having worse base healing potency than WHM already.

Lightspeed still made you instant cast but it cut all damage and healing output by 25% while in effect and did not reduce MP cost (they added that later and changed it so only damage is reduced).

The numbers didn't lie :x AST was extremely lacking in healing to the point where I was solo healing A1S Faust from 100% to 50% while my boyfriend on SCH only DPS'd then started healing at 50%. At the end of the fight he on SCH did double my healing even though he only healed for half the fight and I healed for pretty much all of it minus a bit of opener DPS.

I am not like super awesome best player or anything, but I don't suck really bad and I've been competent enough to clear almost all raids so far even if not close to world first etc.so skill is some of the factor since I am not a top tier world first player, but even with the skill I do have it was overly frustrating and stressful trying to heal with such low output compared to WHM and SCH.

Here is a link to some of the AST changes in the patch notes: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...7aff5b99d9fb32

I'm trying to think of a way to put together my thoughts right... Basically, ASTs were clearing content, it was just making SCHs heal more and DPS less. If Balance actually boosted group DPS like it does now where it would probably make up in the DPS loss from a SCH swapping out of Cleric's, it probably would be seen as a fair trade-off, but it didn't back then because it was less flat %, had a shorter duration, and Spread was like a 2-minute CD and Shuffle was 60 seconds and also let you draw the same crappy Spear cards over and over again, making setting up AOE Balance a lot harder than it is now. But now ASTs are healing as well as WHMs AND contributing something like 800 group DPS from just card buffs alone. I think there are two solutions to the problem, just one is higher risk for higher reward and the other is a safer homogenization route.

I think the game could use a lot more risk in the healing department, so I prefer route A, but that doesn't make route B any less valid. If that makes sense.

(I don't recall struggling that much in content, but that might be because my BF - our raid SCH at the time - always helped out with healing a lot more than other SCHs did at the time. I'm happy to see the whole "off healer" idea start to lose traction, as it's awfully inefficient and places undue stress on one healer while letting the "DPSing" healer focus a lot less on fight mechanics as a whole. Either way, even pushing DPS checks in Gordias he still pulled a lot higher healing numbers than other SCHs, so maybe I never felt the AST crunch as acutely as some other people. I still think that only one aspect of AST needed to be changed - either card QoL or healing effects - but both is just way too much IMO.)

[loreleidiangelo]

I'd stop healing if they were stripped of the ability to do considerable DPS. I get bored to tears being a healbot and love this game for not encouraging that playstyle, don't care what Yoshida's opinion on the matter is. Though it seems his opinion changes often anyway.

Honest question - what precisely is the difference between pushing a button that makes green numbers float on the screen and pushing buttons that makes white numbers float on the screen? This isn't an attack, I've honestly always been curious what people mean when they say "I hate being just a 'healbot' like I was in other games" - or whatever that means. If you're doing the same number of actions per minute, except that your actions are healing actions instead of Cleric-Stance-and-DPS actions, does it make that much of a difference? What precisely is the difference? I just can't relate to it.

[Khalithar]

If you're doing the same number of actions per minute, except that your actions are healing actions instead of Cleric-Stance-and-DPS actions, does it make that much of a difference? What precisely is the difference? I just can't relate to it.

Because in other MMO's if you only want to heal you can, healing in a game like WoW or SWTOR there is enough incoming damage that you basically have to be constantly healing, watching HP bars, buffs, debuffs, dispelling, etc. Whereas in this game, there is much less pressure to be constantly healing, in some content if I'm playing say... a whm, I can throw a regen on a tank and he'll be fine without me needing to cast anything until the regen wears off.The way the fights are designed in this game, when I do heal I often find moments of downtime where I can just stand there waiting for someone to take damage and it's boring. It's not the same actions per minute, it's less, and for some of us that prefer a more active playstyle, it isn't very fun.

Which brings me to the point about the whole dps action thing, leaving aside the fact that healer dps in cleric isn't terrible and that you can cast a regen and switch to cleric with no penalty to it's healing. For one, it's the only way to keep that more active playstyle that I myself am used to and for another, I've always been of the opinion that I should always be casting something whether it be a damage spell or a healing spell, standing there watching paint dry is just a waste of my time when I could be helping out my party more. Sure, I can JUST heal, but if I can keep everyone alive while actively making the fights go faster? I'm always going to choose what speeds it up the most.*

When someone says "I'm tired of being a healbot," they're referring to the fact that they aren't just standing there doing nothing when no one is taking any damage. Back to other games, in a game like WoW or SWTOR back in the day when you overgeared content, your healer could just stand there doing nothing. I'd run dungeons with a healer buddy of mine and he would complain that I'm taking no damage and he has nothing to do because healers in OTHER games do such piss poor horrible damage it's not even worth it half the time. It got to the point where he'd ask me to unequip some of my gear just so I'd take some damage and he'd have something to do.

Gear in that game reached the point where I didn't even need a healer, I'd go in with 2-3 dps friends of mine, pull 50-75% of the entire dungeon at once (not exaggerating, completely serious), use my cooldowns, and they'd aoe everything down and I would honestly not even need a single heal since my paladin could recover HP on it's own. It rendered healers completely worthless at that point! Now with the DPS setup in this game, if no one needs healing, you can make a larger contribution in a meaningful way.

*I will concede the point that I don't dps in content that is brand new, I wait until I've taken some time to get used to it and the way the mechanics of it work.

[Averax]

If yoshi wants healers to heal more, he should be designing more content that requires healers to be active. The way things are now, you can just regen your way through a duty. I would have no problems not DPSing if i actually had something to heal consistently.

Thank you Yoshi for backing up my position lol. I don't DPS as a healer, we are there to heal not do damage.

You are a scholar, what do you even do in duties? Just stand there and wait for it to be over, because eos can do everything for you? I'd go nuts. If you're going to just heal, pick a more active healer at least, like ast.

[Vexander]

Hrmn... you know...

What if, 'Overhealing,' was a mechanic? So say your Warrior has 50,000 HP. They're at 50,000, you slap down a Lustrate/Tetra/Whatever, and instead of the HP staying 50,000, it instead goes up to 65,000? It could make for an interesting mechanic in Boss Fights, beefing up the tank's health so they can take crazy damage. Or beefing up the party's health to take a big damage move. As for visually referencing it, the Green HP bar gets a pink/purple one over it. Double health? A Blue one.