What is up with this toxic community

[Istaru]

-SNIP- Sorry, way too much to individual respond to.

I apologize, I'm going to break down part of my response since you seem to be taking it personally.

My response:
Yes, I was taught that as a tank, I should keep 100% of the enimity 100% of the time. If I didn't, then it was my fault. No excuses.

No excuses.

That is in reference to what I was taught and what I aim for. I should have aggro all the time for all the things. To the people I learned from, saying "The BLM or ARC did not use quelling strikes" and I lost hate was not good enough. It was only an excuse, and they would not accept it. Their answer to those times were "You didn't do your job properly."

I am not saying you did something wrong. Only, the standard I try to hold myself to. I am not going to say that I achieve it 100% of the time, I don't. But, I am always going to aim for it.

On the rest of your original post, I pretty much agreed with you that, given your side of the story, they were a bit over the top.

I do not agree that a couple or a few bad experiences with a group equals they are toxic. If most of your experiences are positive, then saying they are bad is not truly representative of that group.

You said you have done 3500 dungeons, how many have been truly negative experiences?

And since you tossed out some numbers, here are some of mine:

I also have 2 tank mounts, DRK and PLD
I have completed about 6,000 dungeons
I completed all 13 turns of coil
I completed 6 Zetas, 4 are in some stage of completion.(PLD, DRG, BLM, WHM, BRD and NIN)
I have all 13 animas in some stage of completion. (SMN, WHM, AST & BRD are all i230 or higher).

That is only for my main, my alt has done many of the same things, zodiac, anima, coil, etc.

I think I can also say that I know things.

I do not think the community is toxic or overly toxic. There are bad people in the community, but they are the minirity of people I come across. Most are at least decent people, some are nice.

[Voltyblast]

That is in reference to what I was taught and what I aim for. I should have aggro all the time for all the things. To the people I learned from, saying "The BLM or ARC did not use quelling strikes" and I lost hate was not good enough. It was only an excuse, and they would not accept it. Their answer to those times were "You didn't do your job properly."

Mistakes happen, that is a rule of life, and we learn from our mistakes and improve on them. The only excuse here is if you kept doing the mistake and never wanted to improve upon them. I don't know who taught you this but, "I bend but I do not break" is the best thing I can say here because, sometimes, you have to admit your mistakes (heck I admit that I tend to over generalize this game's community and I tend to have a grudge on it), but sometimes I have to admit that I do find good people. Rarely but I do find them. It's the same for tanking: if you pretend perfection without exceptions you'll eventually break instead of bending. I'm far from perfect but as long as I get the job done, I don't really have a problem.

With that said...

I do not think the community is toxic or overly toxic. There are bad people in the community, but they are the minirity of people I come across. Most are at least decent people, some are nice.

To give a general idea of what you said: I don't think all of my 3513 runs were terrible BUT, and this is a big one, in comparison to other games I played, the amounts of bad people I met during these 4 years it's the same, if not double more than I met during my 11 years of wow, and that's ONE game.

I obviously played a lot of WoW (and also a lot of TERA, while the others I only played for a year or two at best) and let's take WoW as a comparison for the moment because at least most of us knows it or even played it one day in the past: in the 11 years i I played it (I started in 2006, near TBC launch) I had more or less the same amount of bad people I had in ffxiv in the span of 4 years and that includes raids. And while the general opinion about WoW is that "its community is toxic" - and I won't disagree there - however I found mostly helpful and generally "good" people whenever I did my dungeons in that game, while this game seems apathic and rarely helpful at all. Heck my first mythic in wow I was so scared but the people were quite patient and never bashed me for having "less than optimal gear" (I was 840) and that surprised me considering all the "omg wow is so bad" vibe the game gets. I was shocked in a good way.

On the other hand, in this game I often had to deal with toxicity in my trials and raids (dungeons a bit less thankfully), with quite a good amount of people bashing on newbies like me for going in without knowing the proper ways (even as a first timer). Heck, I quit nidhogg EX because someone was quite harsh on me because "I did not know how to move during p3", it made me tear up. Granted the person apologized so there was no debate but...really? Did she had to tell me that "how can you not understand this, if you did coil?" That's something I NEVER experienced before and even if I did, it was never so mean or anything this bad. I felt so destroyed that I quitted primal clearing until 3.5 and now I'm on Zurvan thanks to ME and nobody else. Nobody bothers to help newbies or people held back like me as you know.

So does my post say the community is bad? Yes, but I suppose I'm over the top and exaggerating a lot of time and considering I can't lash out of what I think about the community in game without being considered a troll (not that I care, but I'd like to spend my time in game differently), this is the only place I can go full out without being considered crazy.
Oh no I'm not joking there: I was suddenly ostracized by a FC during ARR for disagreeing that the community is good (literally disagreeing, no harsh rebuke or offending words), to the point that nobody would talk to me and the second in command whispered me to see if I was "mentally distressed". Yep, apparently saying the community is "not good" equals to being considered mentally disordered! And that was sad because I loved these guys and I remember spending so much time with them in primals and stuff (I played with them for about 6 months) and suddenly saying something "different" turned me into the black sheep. Suffice to say, I will never join a FC ever again and to this day I'm still FCless

So either I had the worst case of luck ever or maybe the good people are hiding or something, but considering my past experience and how people generally say "this is the best community ever" (which I often mock it, I admit it), I simply can't agree with that statement overall: I find it to be average at best and, in all honesty, not too different from WoW in many aspects and, to sum my experience up, I had more negatives than positives.

However I will say this: I am always open to surprises and if I start seeing better people in the game, I'll be more than glad to take my words back.

By the way just in case, I just replied to give you a better idea of my thoughts but nothing more. I'm glad we haven't reached into harsh rebukes or such. I prefer to avoid needless fights.

[Istaru]

-SNIP AGAIN- Sorry.

I am not here to say the community is awesome at all.

While I have also played many years, 14 to be exact. I have only played FFXI and both versions of this game. I have not played as many MMOs as you have.

Personally, I have met good and bad people in the game, as such, I have had both positive and negative experiences with random people.

I can honestly say, that I have had more positive than negative.

[Shougun]

I apologize, I'm going to break down part of my response since you seem to be taking it personally.

My response:
Yes, I was taught that as a tank, I should keep 100% of the enimity 100% of the time. If I didn't, then it was my fault. No excuses.

No excuses.

WHM casts Medica II during your train trash pull, even the best will not keep 100% lol (as you have to turn around and pick them up). Leveling tank with acceptable for that dungeon gear, everyone else max geared, tank doesn't have their tank stance due to dungeon, BLM goes balls to the wall deeps on your non marked monster peels from tank. Shield Lob while going into position, DD does a triple flare rotation out the gates the second your shield lob hits and before you have a chance to finish your 1 2 3 (yes you could provoke but if the boss has already queued an attack, you're going to see one attack go off regardless and everything be out of position). Also just to be coy.. Some monsters don't have an enmity table so.. :3 lol.

Pretty sure there are moments its not the tank's fault if its 95% of the time 100% of the time :P.

[cougarel]

For the love of roles, stop placing blame on one or another.The tank pulls first , end of story. I will use all my healing to keep the dps in the case the tank aggro is displaced and the tank needs to regain position + aggro , but bare in mind that because ppl can't wait ,you will lose damage as I need to switch to heal more . Before the pull the healer casts some absorbing spell anyways, but it doesn't always do the trick.
Why it is so hard to understand that you can't have 100% enmity with an opener skill in a case of a tank?

Also, no i won't let the dps die cause the aggro is on him. Depending on which class i'm on i will either heal or try to regain aggro , so grow up and act accordingly.
You want a fun and wipeless run? Then act upon it and communicate , change strategy according to the other 3 players, that's what a mmoprg is all about.
By refusing to change strategy according to the situation in hand, how can you freaking grow in skill and awareness as a player?
Might as well go and play solitaire in that case cause guess what you are in party with random players , it's not a static party.

[Arg0n]

WHM casts Medica II during your train trash pull, even the best will not keep 100% lol (as you have to turn around and pick them up).

Sure a tank can. It is annoying with a medica II on group, but as a tank, i really don't care.
I see it quite as Istaru, it doesnt matter how good the healer oder dd's are, or if they overheal or pull for themself.
I'm a tank, i carry them through, even if they pull more or attack different targets. It doesnt matter for me, i hold emnity from everything, or even try to.
healer pulls more? --> pull more next time. DD's pull more? --> if healer is fine, pull more.
And to hold emnity is really easy, except in balsear wall, these enemies suck hard

always try to give your best, even if the other groupmembers suck.

[Kingmanath]

Some people are rude, some people are hyper sensitive. Both annoy me, to be honest ^^

[Shougun]

always try to give your best, even if the other groupmembers suck.

Of course, agreed to that but I think you took "keep up" as in alive or maybe not taking the key point I was replying to as you admit it's not true in the reply later on (after saying sure you can). That 100% of all enmity mishaps is always 100% of the tank's fault, this is a bad outlook and is not true but it is true tank's have a lot of tools to keep it mostly in their power. Again they were vehement on 100% tank's fault- if you have to adjust for bad players or terrible choices other players have made then you've already failed (according to them). If the WHM takes hate in your train it's not your fault therefore automatically 100% of 100% statement isn't true, this is a group effort game - I merely was trying to reply that such an outlook is not conducive to a friendly environment and is false anyways. So sure you can keep 100% enmity at all times when WHM takes hate on your train is actually sure you can't :P.

Teaching others that 100% of all deaths is the healer's fault would be hilariously wrong for example. I just didn't like their absolute nature (most absolutes are wrong) and anyone learning to be better would learn to be worse by following that (unless they're a tank but they'd also learn to take blame for things that weren't their fault so still not optimal).

[HakaseNyan]

Keeping a positive outlook towards players in this game is literal insanity. I try my hardest to keep things constructive and helpful, but at what point do people lift their face from their keyboard and actually pay attention to what's going on around them? I kept having to heal a bard(60) in Leviathan(Hard), and I quickly noticed he kept attacking the part that's reflecting ranged damage. How long should it take to realize you are killing yourself?

There are some really great people in-game, but the facerolllers are probably more memorable because they sting like a sliver in your thumb.

[MiaGrey]

There's.. not really anything FFXIV can do to fix that "issue". Really. The issue, at its core is that FFXIV isn't FFXI and that can't be fixed unless Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Re-Reborn is created or a FFXVII is like FFXI. Almost anything from XI will probably kill FFXIV or be viewed badly. Such as no teleporting or waiting for a boat.

That will not fly in XIV. Truly... the best advice someone could give is to just not play XIV. It's like being upset that Destiny isn't like Call of Duty. What can the makers do?


Also... Mithras aren't in XIV either : P. We have Miqo'tes! Different!

I don't understand the rush to hyperbole "anything from XI will probably kill FFXIV".

Based on what? UO, XI, & EQ were all wildly popular and successful games.

Everyone is making this MASSIVE assumption that the decision by SE to not use XI’s mechanics was based on solid data. Data that presumably showed XI players were a dying breed and the only market worth pursuing is the casual, console based w/e… or the WoW demo. I simply don’t buy that. I’m sure there is some truth there justifying moderation toward more casual play but abandonment of XI/EQ mechanics?

I realize WoW has always had the larger player base and I can clearly envision the boardroom rationale as to which demo they need to be targeting. If any of you have ever spent any time in corporate America you know that these people aren’t all Steve Jobs types that have a vision and a passion for producing quality products but rather prioritize based on short terms gains whatever will look best in presentations to stakeholders. I think in some ways what Steve Jobs did with Apple in the iPod era is somewhat analogous to what needs to happen in the MMO realm - someone has to be willing to take a risk and even produce something new - something that isn’t already popular (i.e. WoW…).

Trying to make the game more appealing to a broad market (casuals) means the game will be treated like casuals treat other games - they pick them up and then leave when they’re board. Casuals don’t invest. Now we’re at the stage where the game is paying for that decision - the people who want to invest don’t have a game platform that allows for it (i.e. armor being worthless every 3 months, the whole vertical progression thing).

I’ve never advocated to recreate XI, I’ll be the first to say I wouldn’t play XI from 12 year ago today even if it existed. That’d be silly. XIV has a ton of wonderful systems and experiences that XI would benefit from.

To me it seems odd that people put so much stock in this notion that “a game like XI doesn’t exist so there clearly isn’t any demand for it”. I think there is a massive problem in most of popular media (movies, music, tv, etc.) where a the creatives aren’t producing anything anymore (i.e. most new pop songs have an average of 15 producers). The same for Hollywood, movies aren’t the vision of a single person anymore, they’re recut and remade post production by a comity of movie executives. This is happening in the game world as well, it’s stagnant everywhere not just MMO’s. There’s very little innovation in big titles - the only place I’m seeing somewhat original stuff is on the mobile platforms where smaller studios can get in.