How to make the 3rd raid difficulty work

[LunaFaye]

I feel you've missed the point - what I'm proposing in my post is a vanity only reward that signifies the mark of an exceptional raider as they cleared the highest tiers of content for the sake of challenge. This isn't items for progression through a raid tier to make things easier that will go obsolete after the raid tier is done. This also doesn't necessarily mean gear either - it could be a title or a minion unique to the raid tier.

I like the idea but only if it's available to these raiders that cleared the content. Most of the time, these items (vanity/glamour) being added to simpler content (potd,crafting as example). I hear people already saying again that content shouldn't be gated, but I mean it isn't really gated since everybody could access it, if they put some effort/time in it. I would do that content if we get glamour or titles, not so much if it's just minions or orchestra scrolls (hate these things).

[Arutan]

I like the idea but only if it's available to these raiders that cleared the content. Most of the time, these items (vanity/glamour) being added to simpler content (potd,crafting as example). I hear people already saying again that content shouldn't be gated, but I mean it isn't really gated since everybody could access it, if they put some effort/time in it. I would do that content if we get glamour or titles, not so much if it's just minions or orchestra scrolls (hate these things).

I say, let's get epic glamour armor in our top tier raid. Nobody complain about Feast rewards, so if they come cry over top tier Raid rewards, they can go *** themselves

[NolLacnala]

I feel you've missed the point

I didn't, but you did miss mine. What you are arguing for is what we currently have, except obsolete on arrival instead of usable for a few months. We even get titles and mounts. 2nd coil savage was touched by such a tiny percentage of the playerbase that they are only now considering revisiting it.

Unless you're implying a vanity item that's removed from rewards once echo hits that tier, which is as bad an idea as pvp's seasonal rewards.

[Zumi]

Didn't they say there was going to be double savage if you beat savage in Stormblood. I remember them saying something like that in live letter.

[Ghishlain]

I didn't, but you did miss mine. What you are arguing for is what we currently have, except obsolete on arrival instead of usable for a few months. We even get titles and mounts. 2nd coil savage was touched by such a tiny percentage of the playerbase that they are only now considering revisiting it.

Unless you're implying a vanity item that's removed from rewards once echo hits that tier, which is as bad an idea as pvp's seasonal rewards.

Nah, we're talking about two separate things entirely and no, I didn't miss your point either.

You're implying the rewards for the highest tier content should be gear that's relevant to the gear score when content is released. However, for the sake of discussion in this particular topic, S-E has implied they would like to make a third raid tier. If it goes the way of three difficulty tiers, I would like to see the following:

Normal Tier - Similar to story mode Gordias, Midas, and Creator
"Savage" Tier - Similar to current Creator Savage
"You're Gonna Die a Lot" Tier - Similar to Second Savage

The reward we see now (and what you're looking at) would be suitable for the "Savage" tier whereas the items I'm suggesting to add would be simple vanity items for the people who can complete "You're Gonna Die a Lot" tier. They are two separate item sets and "relevance" is to the eye of the beholder. In your post you're implying "relevance" is something that increases your gear score and makes your character more powerful. In my case "relevance" would be a small piece of item that caters to a small niche of the raider population that can and will handle the challenges thrown at time in the "You're Gonna Die a Lot" tier.

The two are different. In fact, I only used non-progression reward type as a small incentive to participate in the "You're Gonna Die a Lot" tier when I imagine there would be people who would partake in it even if there was literally 0 reward.

You make a good point about the Second Coil savage, though there was issues with that as well since it shared the same lockout as normal Second Coil. I've made my own comment about the meaningfulness of dedicating resources in this manner which is another debate entirely.

My thoughts behind a third tier of difficulty is that if they were to do it as a "challenge only" tier, it should min ilvl locked so it's a showcase of skill and not "how much can we outgear this fight". In addition, it would be possible to maintain this min ilvl lock on this third tier even when the previous two tiers become obsolete so the gear stays "relevant" and also isn't removed when a certain period of time has elapsed. This would also alleviate one of the concerns regarding the certain vanity items that were unique to PvP.

[Lone-wolfe-02]

Because, y'know...you'll need that gear to beat the hardestest content. Which must then reward better gear for the hardestestest content. Rinse and repeat.

It's sort of a curious logic - The better you are, the worse gear you need, yet the better you are, the better gear you supposedly deserve, so the more you need the gear, the worse gear you get and vice versa.

That kinda leads the purpose of stats ad absurdum. Is it really about stats or do people just want to flaunt their E-Peen? >_>

E-peen only children care about such things, i just want something to be worth my time.

Very few people would do it purely for the challenge (challenge is secondary, while getting gear is my primary motive) exclusive vanity rewards would make it worth it though because all about that glamour.

[Hayward]

Why would i raid for a lousy title?, second coil did that and barely anyone did it. The best gear should always be a reward from the hardest content period.

If for no other reason, I can respect this post because it doesn't paper over the real reason people want harder content: To be special snowflakes who can do content that 90%+ of each server can't do and flaunt out-of-reach gear.

This was done in FFXI. We've seen that movie before. It was never about challenge then, nor is it the case now. It's all about three letters: E-G-O.

[Amaranths]

A 3rd difficulty is a waste of time when it's only for like 5% of the player base if you don't like they difficulty we have now go play another game

[BubblyBoar]

The 3rd tier is being made specifically for people that want challenge, not majority of raiders. Savage is for the majority of raiders, while normal is for everyone.

[randysquirrel]

iirc story mode was introduced because a lot complained about not being able to see the coil story without doing savage. So why does the story mode now drop any loot at all?

imo you want the story, do story mode. You want loot, do savage raid.
stick story mode in one of the roulettes so the queues still fire