More Customize Skill

[dragonseth07]

Well with an attitude like that....

A realistic one? Building "my way" only ever works in MMO's before you start playing with other people seriously. People want online games to play like single player ones, but they can't. At some point, your allies expect you to play well, and that translates to very few options.

[SundayTrash]

A realistic one? Building "my way" only ever works in MMO's before you start playing with other people seriously. People want online games to play like single player ones, but they can't. At some point, your allies expect you to play well, and that translates to very few options.

ur talking as if all the fight were tank and spank, how about a fight that has high raid wide aoe, that would need u to be spec to defensive, or a fight with waves and waves of adds that would require TP/MP reduction, or fight that has high movement that would benefit shortcast, there is no correct or best spec if the fights were design with mix and match mechanics.

[dragonseth07]

ur talking as if all the fight were tank and spank, how about a fight that has high raid wide aoe, that would need u to be spec to defensive, or a fight with waves and waves of adds that would require TP/MP reduction, or fight that has high movement that would benefit shortcast, there is no correct or best spec if the fights were design with mix and match mechanics.

True, but then there is a best spec per fight, and you're expected to switch to that before the fight.

WoW's system in Warlords was exactly this. There were talents for different situations, and it was expected that you change spec on a per-fight basis. At that point, your character no longer had a build. Your build was every talent based on what you fought.

[SundayTrash]

True, but then there is a best spec per fight, and you're expected to switch to that before the fight.

WoW's system in Warlords was exactly this. There were talents for different situations, and it was expected that you change spec on a per-fight basis. At that point, your character no longer had a build. Your build was every talent based on what you fought.

on the other hand, would be interesting for the community to try figuring out to balance their spec for specific fight, and the speed runner to try out different spec for faster kill.

[Shurrikhan]

True, but then there is a best spec per fight, and you're expected to switch to that before the fight.

WoW's system in Warlords was exactly this. There were talents for different situations, and it was expected that you change spec on a per-fight basis. At that point, your character no longer had a build. Your build was every talent based on what you fought.

That was largely because the system was almost entirely unrestricted, hence their (false) promise to make talent choices worth more than just a near-free consumable in Legion.

Note that Wrath and Cata didn't run into those issues, primarily because niche was set primarily by spec rather than talent choices (which mostly determined only gameplay and utilities back then), and secondly because you needed to visit a class trainer to swap talents.

[Shurrikhan]

A realistic one? Building "my way" only ever works in MMO's before you start playing with other people seriously. People want online games to play like single player ones, but they can't. At some point, your allies expect you to play well, and that translates to very few options.

This is such a overly generalized argument that it's hard to tell where to even start in debunking its particular links. Yes, overall, people are easily led towards cookie cutter specs when they have little reason to or intelligence by which to experiment with other builds, when the developers split talent series across multiple metas yet only really reward one of them (the "raid" meta; PvP, open-world, etc., be damn), when developers cannot determine how they wish to balance general compensations or capabilities (such as AoE vs. ST, burst vs. sustained dps), and/or when the developers don't do a good job of balancing those choices.

Yes, making a customization that allows for more than a few of its choices to be viable requires specific balancing, actual validation of more than just one gameplay type (e.g. "the raid"), and a community who actually likes to experiment and explore. XIV thus far will probably miss every one of those parameters. But that is a failing of the developer and the product, not of the overall concept of customization. (Were it a problem with the concept itself, the moment the "gimmick" of reduced LB build rates is removed, jobs performing within 1% of each other in theory would be taken or excluded accordingly, until SE effectively streamlines us into just 3 possible classes in order to compensate.)

[dragonseth07]

snip

My statement was generalized because I have played countless MMO's over the years, and every single goddamn one runs the same course.

At the start, and in early levels, everyone loves building their character and exploring options. Eventually, the playerbase gets skilled enough to find what builds and strategies are better than others. The meta forms and stabilizes, only changing with balance patches.

Player customization is a hollow promise.

[Shurrikhan]

Player customization is a hollow promise.

By that degree, so too is "an interesting world setting" within a given MMO. I mean, gameplay's just going to end up being a boss arena accessible to the (slight minority) of players playing the "real" game, right?

It may be unprecedented, and a developer's promise to make it may just be sweet nothings, but it itself is not a hollow promise.

[MagiusNecros]

A realistic one? Building "my way" only ever works in MMO's before you start playing with other people seriously. People want online games to play like single player ones, but they can't. At some point, your allies expect you to play well, and that translates to very few options.

More like I see a toxic hive mentality of "our way is the only way". XIV as it is offers little to no customization. Only offers flatline linear gear progression. Clearly evident when every fight is scripted. Devs themselves are so against customization they deliberately decrease LB gauge acquisition if multiple players play the same role/job that is outside standard conditions in preformed parties. And the cross class system in itself is a complete joke.

Pitiful. But I fear the expansion and whatever life XIV has will remain the same with linear progression and it's tomestones and tokens format. Tedious and tiresome. Story's okay though!

[Bourne_Endeavor]

More like I see a toxic hive mentality of "our way is the only way". XIV as it is offers little to no customization. Only offers flatline linear gear progression. Clearly evident when every fight is scripted. Devs themselves are so against customization they deliberately decrease LB gauge acquisition if multiple players play the same role/job that is outside standard conditions in preformed parties. And the cross class system in itself is a complete joke.

Pitiful. But I fear the expansion and whatever life XIV has will remain the same with linear progression and it's tomestones and tokens format. Tedious and tiresome. Story's okay though!

That is not toxicity, but simple pragmatism. If it can be mathematically proven one stat or skill customization is superior, you refusing to adapt is pure stubbornness. It's akin to arguing Dragoons should max out SkS or White Mage shouldn't bother with accuracy even if they intent to DPS. You can do it, but you're only hurting yourself and your raid group.