This game has seriously messed up RNG

[MN_14]

I must confess, I dropped seriously crafting when HW came in. This was due to the RNG endured when crafting the final lot of off-hands. (RS/HT/reclaim fails far over their %, 2/3 of the time).

The problem is RNG is involved in every move - the more moves you make, and the high-level requires a lot of them, you're rolling the dice 30-odd times, each one compounds the chance of failure.

I'm a bit surprised at this since HW is far less demanding in terms of RNG manipulation than ARR. In ARR, to craft 3* and 4* effectively, you still had to build up 11 stacks of IQ regularly and that was without the aid of new abilities like precise touch and maker's mark. HW is easier since you have far more tools to reduce RNG and everything is predictable due to low proc rates but much higher base CP.

For crafts (HW or ARR), you can expect to routinely see 1-5 misses in a craft. To master crafting, you have to be able to handle 4-5 misses as those are regular occurrences even if they're less common than 2-3 misses. I normally craft from 0/13187 for a 4* craft so 4-5 misses will make a craft go sour. But in most cases, I can rebound to 11 stacks of IQ leaving me with 78-90% usually depending on the situation. Start with 2000/13187 and I'd be able to completely absorb those misses and get that 100%.

There's a learning curve to RNG crafting/manipulation and it really isn't so much different from learning how to use a battle class and how to handle specific fight mechanics. I feel that the underlying RNG mechanics are actually quite fascinating once you've learned them and it's a shame that most players that I know don't really seem to care.

There are strategies over how to handle the maker's mark phase, strategies on what's the best thing to do when a good proc appears (there really is no blanket rule whether to use tricks, precise touch, hasty; everything is situational). Mid-craft, you can even work out what possible approaches there are and do a rough calculation to see which one can maximize your odds of success.

[XiXiQ]

I'm a bit surprised at this since HW is far less demanding in terms of RNG manipulation than ARR.

I'd say they were even - while a few extra tools were thrown in, you get to use MM instead of a single RS, precise touch is nice but even it occurring inside the quality phase is - yep.... RNG. however, with more steps required, it's evened out again. I'm not ignorant of the fact that sometimes you can work around it, but the fails I'm seeing, you aren't working around - like failing HT 7 times out of 10, RS 3-4 times in a row, those are simply far more common they they should be. I see them EVERY time I craft 10-20 items, and typically more than once. I've not specialised - mainly because I lost interest because of the RNG, and later because the idea of "buying" an action put me off, so can't comment on that one.

I'll agree it's similar to battle classes - as things pile on there's just more buttons, longer rotations, more buff juggling, which means most of the rotation just ends up in the crapper due to unavoidable mechanics going on on the other side -then crit is RNG anyway.... sigh

Crafting has a similar issue - as the rotations get longer and longer, the RNG just compounds more and more, leading to a similar problem - it doesn't matter if you know what you're doing or know how it works, you're just constantly frustrated by it anyway.

I'm fence-sitting for SB as it stands, I'm beginning to find the game simply frustrating rather than amusing or fun. Less reliance on RNG and a general clear-out or condensation of skills is sorely needed. If this ARR-HW trend is repeated, the game will be unplayable to anyone beyond masochists.

[MN_14]

I'd say they were even - while a few extra tools were thrown in, you get to use MM instead of a single RS, precise touch is nice but even it occurring inside the quality phase is - yep.... RNG. however, with more steps required, it's evened out again.

I actually don't find them to be even myself. In ARR, you absolutely were required to use RS multiple times in a craft along with a whole ton of HTs. There wasn't a lot of room for RNG reducers such as PT or even swapping HTs with RNG free abilities like BT or ST. In HW, you can start with up to 50% quality and unless you're starting from 0 or near 0 quality, you usually can start swapping out RNG abilities halfway through the synth. That's the biggest factor on why crafting i220s while geared in 190s is really simple. With a quality requirement of only 10k, not only do you need fewer successful touches, but you can also usually simply cut out half of the RNG.

In ARR, several crafts such as artisan's tools or gear forced you to start from a max of ~700/4500 and 1200/5600 respectively. 4* crafted materials were even worse, forcing you to start from a max of 500-600/5600 iirc. HQ materials weren't worth the extra cost (absolutely minimal benefits) so in practice, you were forced to craft 4* materials from all NQ.

In HW, even from all NQ, I find opportunities to switch out RNG abilities for RNG free ones to guarantee 100% on occasion so HQ rates are definitely higher and more consistent than before. This is also just looking at synths in which you start from 0 quality.

If you're starting from 4000-6000 quality on a 4* craft, I find that I usually don't even need Byregot's Blessing and there probably is a RNG free way of crafting them if starting quality is that high (haven't looked into it myself). At 6K quality, you'd be able to absorb 8 misses no problem.

On an side note, HW crafts aren't really that much longer compared to 3* or 4* ARR end game crafts. My typical 4* craft is around 50 steps, whereas my ARR crafts were around 38-45 steps usually. They take longer than before but the difference is exaggerated.

[XiXiQ]

My typical 4* craft is around 50 steps, whereas my ARR crafts were around 38-45 steps usually. They take longer than before but the difference is exaggerated.

You've just quoted yet another 5-12 failure points, and yes, it does matter in the end.

[MN_14]

You've just quoted yet another 5-12 failure points, and yes, it does matter in the end.

Ok, I understand your dislike for RNG as I've seen my share of failed rolls on loot. But I honestly don't see RNG is a problem in the crafting system as I've gone through thousands of synths myself. You do sometimes get 7-8 misses (and will see 5-6 misses routinely) but consistently seeing 7-8 misses 30% of the time doesn't make sense (I've had brief periods where I've seen multiple crafts turn out like that in a row and it's rare). Your sample size is probably way too small.

Crafting isn't complete random luck like loot rolls or even gathered items (BTN and miner shouldn't be a problem now aside from aetherial reduction; if you can meet the minimum gather requirements for the newer 1* and 3* gather points, you can increase the rate to 100% just by spending 100 GP). The 5-12 extra failure points from Maker's Mark don't matter unless you're consistently missing 5-12 extra times (which I've never seen in all of my crafts). On top of that, difficulty is adjustable via your starting quality.

Once you design a strategy where your average expected result from all NQ is 100%, you'll find yourself HQing practically everything left and right.

If you're writing off crafting simply from some bad experiences with a small sample, I really do think you're missing out. I can see why some players might have found the gearing daunting (fixed in 3.3) and materials expensive, but the system is so flexible especially in HW that RNG should be the least of their problems. I hope you do give it a shot again because I really do find it to be an enjoyable mini-game myself.