the "relic" and "anima" and whatever 4.0 version of it should not be powerful

[DinahDemiurge]

Savage raiding shouldn't be the only end-game goal for XIV. Don't underestimate the amount of time needed and dedication to work through an animal quest chain.
You may spend so many hours trying to clear A12, others may spend many hours getting their weapon.
It's not even bis yet until a later patch, the relics are enough however, to enter savage content and clear it.
If you are jealous of those with relics, just get one?

Jealous isn't the right word. More like, I am annoyed that braindead grinds are given the same merit and achievement as mastering the game when it is clearly not the same thing.

[Miste]

I am annoyed that braindead grinds are given the same merit and achievement as mastering the game when it is clearly not the same thing.

I raid too and I totally disagree with you. My merit and achievement comes from actually clearing the hardest content in the game. I don't need to take gear away from other players to keep my achievements. I don't think your idea of merits and achievements is a very good one.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Jealous isn't the right word. More like, I am annoyed that braindead grinds are given the same merit and achievement as mastering the game when it is clearly not the same thing.

The point is to give struggling players a slight edge. Maybe they are close to an A11S clear but needed that extra damage from their Anima. As someone who cleared Savage well before 3.5, I couldn't care less if an easier path is made for inexperienced players. Good for them. Maybe next raid tier, they'll have learned enough to not need their relic, and that's only a good thing.

[Hayward]

Jealous isn't the right word. More like, I am annoyed that braindead grinds are given the same merit and achievement as mastering the game when it is clearly not the same thing.

This attitude among the so-called "pros" has gotta go. What makes you guys think your "special snowflake" status is under some kind of threat just because some of us would rather build the best weapon for us through other avenues rather than beating our heads against the wall in content that you don't want us doing anyway?

Let people have fun on their own terms, for once.

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

Jealous isn't the right word. More like, I am annoyed that braindead grinds are given the same merit and achievement as mastering the game when it is clearly not the same thing.

Basically you think that "mastering the game" somehow entitles you to the best gear and anyone who doesn't jump through the same hoops you do shouldn't have comparable gear. nevermind that if the RNG favors you, you could have that weapon on day one while relics often require a great deal of unmitigatable time, money and sometimes an rng element (like the fate crystals or HQing the crafteds when it was required).

I'm sorry but I disagree with your assertion. Someone who takes the "slow and steady" expensive/grind route to a good weapon absolutely deserves something just as good as what you got from from "mastering the game" and killing a raid boss who dropped you a weapon right then and there. From some perspectives, the person who grinded the relic from day one invests far more in obtaining their weapon than you ever did getting your raid drops.

[Aniya_Estlihn]

Jealous isn't the right word. More like, I am annoyed that braindead grinds are given the same merit and achievement as mastering the game when it is clearly not the same thing.

You should not be raiding for a reward, you should be raiding for the challenge. If you only care about the reward, stop raiding.

But hey, I get it, you're a raider, big whoop. I can guarantee you that a big chunk of the community doesn't care if someone raids or not. Nor do they care about your shiny baubles. Having seen it time and again from a plethora of different people, it's very clear to me that raiders simply aren't special in any sense of the word nor will they ever be in this community setting. If you want to spend your time like that, it's cool, but others will spend their time casually grinding out a relic because they don't have the time, patience, mentality, persistence, or other traits to handle Savage— that's perfectly OK and it doesn't make them less important than you.

That doesn't make you or they better than one another, and the fact that you'd even imply such is sickening. Options are a good thing, even if you and many others would try to claim otherwise. You'll simply always be wrong, and that's okay too. I'll be looking forward to seeing you say the same at the end of the 4.X cycle as well.

[Vexander]

Jealous isn't the right word. More like, I am annoyed that braindead grinds are given the same merit and achievement as mastering the game when it is clearly not the same thing.

"Mastering the Game," is subjective and, to be frank, a very significant goal, when you consider every single facet the game has to it. PvP, Mini Games like Verminion or Gold Saucer, Raids/Dungeons, Achievements, Crafting, etc... Relic/Anima weapons can indeed be included in that list. Considering all the work put into obtaining the Relic/Anima weapons I cannot help but feel that they're pretty underpowered for glorified glamour sticks. Then again, I -can- appreciate SE not wanting people to feel forced to get them. As a glorified glamour stick, I wish they weren't quite as difficult to acquire. Its interesting content aside from the grinds.

I was one of the people who figured they'd never get one or bother trying. Then I found myself bored and went, "Hey, why not?" Its not so much hard as annoying due to the grinds. Considering I'm not even sure I'll main BLM come Stormblood, it may even be a waste of time since that's the weapon I'm working on. If I go RDM or SMN or something else, then this glorified glamour stick is pretty useless.

[Kaedan]

Jealous isn't the right word. More like, I am annoyed that braindead grinds are given the same merit and achievement as mastering the game when it is clearly not the same thing.

Far more effort is expended getting a maxed out Anima weapon than getting a maxed out Token weapon or Primal weapon. Yes, you may need to spend a few weeks practicing a fight before you finally succeed, but the Anima weapons take months.

Also, to say it's "braindead" and that you don't have to "master the game" is not really true. There's no more "mastering" of the game done getting the gobdip or primal weapon than there is getting the Anima weapon. In fact, it could be argued you do far more "mastering" of the game doing the Anima because you end up doing a mixture of activities rather than memorizing just a few fights.

[CookieMonsta]

Far more effort is expended getting a maxed out Anima weapon than getting a maxed out Token weapon or Primal weapon. Yes, you may need to spend a few weeks practicing a fight before you finally succeed, but the Anima weapons take months.

Also, to say it's "braindead" and that you don't have to "master the game" is not really true. There's no more "mastering" of the game done getting the gobdip or primal weapon than there is getting the Anima weapon. In fact, it could be argued you do far more "mastering" of the game doing the Anima because you end up doing a mixture of activities rather than memorizing just a few fights.

Bit rich coming from a guy that hasn't cleared anything significant lol. I'm sorry to break your delusional universe but what you said is a load of crap. Go do A3S, A4S, A6S, A7S and/or A8S in appropriate ilevel and come back and tell me how long it takes to learn. (hint, each of those fights can take months)

Anima takes zero skill and zero mastery, it just takes time and willpower. You can have zero knowledge of the game beyond google, a lot of time and a lot of self loathing and you can get any relic. I've done both raids and relic and I can tell you. The relic doesn't even come close to the effort required to master a raid tier, you don't master anything by doing relic. At best, you learn how burn yourself out faster.

This "memorizing" of fights tells you me you know nothing about endgame difficult content. There is so much more involved to becoming an effective raider.

1. Mastering your class/role
2. Mastering strategy
3. Mastering people skills
4. Mastering communication
5. Mastering morale

Each of those points can take months, if not years to accomplish. Some never even begin to climb the mountain of knowledge.

[Kaedan]

Go do A3S, A4S, A6S, A7S and/or A8S in appropriate ilevel and come back and tell me how long it takes to learn. (hint, each of those fights can take months)

I have. Like I said, took a few weeks of practice to memorize the fights and figure out positioning before we cleared them (I'm lucky to have a FC with competent members). Also, I think you misunderstood what I actually said. I said it takes more EFFORT to finish an Anima than to clear Savage, which is true if you have a decent group of people that you play with.

Savage takes zero skill and zero mastery, it just takes time and willpower. You can have zero knowledge of the game beyond google, a lot of time and a lot of self loathing and you can get any Savage clear. I've done both raids and relic and I can tell you. You don't master anything by doing Savage. At best, you learn how burn yourself out faster.

There, fixed that for you with just as much hyperbole as your original statement.

This "memorizing" of fights tells you me you know nothing about endgame difficult content.

The fact you think it takes more than memorization means you are attributing something that doesn't exist to Savage. There are two components to "mastering" difficult content:

1) Memorization (this includes timing)
2) Positioning


Once you have memorized the fight and memorized the timing and determined your positioning, that's all you need. Of course, you need to be able to trust your party members that they have done the proper memorization as well, but trusting other people doesn't take any "skill" or "mastery".

Of course Savage takes time and effort to accomplish, but you're making it out to be far more than what it is. Anima takes more time and effort, you just don't have to rely on other people to know what they are doing in order to complete it.