Making Jobs Rotationally Easier in 4.0

[ADVSS]

possibly they can bake in damage buffs with rotations, ie disembowel in the ct combo etc. make dancing edge the secon part of aoelian, idk.
to the drg tanking lost city, i had a similar experience on my monk, when a tank left i ended up tanking the entire dungeon by spamming aoes uand such, it wasnt easy but it was managable. it kind of sucks that potd has taught us that tanks are useful only if a healer is present, otherwise another dps is better

[Shurrikhan]

possibly they can bake in damage buffs with rotations, ie disembowel in the ct combo etc. make dancing edge the secon part of aoelian, idk.
to the drg tanking lost city, i had a similar experience on my monk, when a tank left i ended up tanking the entire dungeon by spamming aoes uand such, it wasnt easy but it was managable. it kind of sucks that potd has taught us that tanks are useful only if a healer is present, otherwise another dps is better

Wait what? Disembowel IS the second part of the CT combo, and making Dancing Edge the second part of Aeolian Edge (replacing Gust Blade) would cheese almost all rotational thought in NIN dps.

And what sucks about finding a new meta for your irregular conditions (killing it before it reaches you, split tanking, and kiting, in the case of 4-DPS PotD)? I prefer to be able to the situation and make something new and interesting out of it than to just sit hesitant because you don't have your role quota.

(And heck, I rather enjoy Monk tanking, especially if I don't have to worry about any else's positional dps. If there's another melee with me... then I typically prefer Dragoon for tanking on a DPS class, or just having the party gradually figure out how to split tank and make the most out of Cure III and HoTs.)

I disagree. It's not even the meta that is wrong. It's the players' skill and mentality.

That. Exactly that.
And it's not even just the dps people fail to figure out. Kiting? Covering for squishier members? Mob gathering? Stunning key targets? oGCD debuffs? Tracking allied CDs? Not so much.
Hell, soft-swap tanking to keep up CD coverage on boss strikes? Nope; would rather dedicate an OT to wasting their toolkit or, at best, spending it on triple Fell Cleaves.

Very true. And having played DRG/BRD/BLM it is great fun calling them out (especially the bards... they have support but often refuse to use it).

Admittedly, I'm less likely to use it until my opener is done if I can't use it pre-pull (see no-countdown pulls) and there combined magic damage is considerably less than mine. In a heavy caster comp, though, I'd happily repop it on a third bar of mana to sync with their cooldowns if need be. Just a matter of payoff vs. butthurt (from tanks running from the edge of the arena, without prior indication, pulling the moment the last guy enters the room).

[Sarcatica]

Hell, woft-swap tanking to keep up CD coverage on boss strikes? Nope; would rather dedicate an OT to wasting their toolkit or, at best, spending it on triple Fell Cleaves.

This one depends on encounters actually. Most of the times though, a DRK/PLD can take hits for themselves and it only makes sense to do so if you are competent enough and are also into getting extra DPS through procs from Shield Swipes and Reprisal/Blood Price. This excludes mechanics that forces tank swap ofc.

[Sarcatica]

possibly they can bake in damage buffs with rotations, ie disembowel in the ct combo etc. make dancing edge the secon part of aoelian, idk.
to the drg tanking lost city, i had a similar experience on my monk, when a tank left i ended up tanking the entire dungeon by spamming aoes uand such, it wasnt easy but it was managable. it kind of sucks that potd has taught us that tanks are useful only if a healer is present, otherwise another dps is better

But having a tank makes dungeons easier though because tank is designed to take hits more than anything else. DPS will require more healings than tank as well. PotD is in this spot where you can solo it just fine, because as long as you don't tank too many mobs, nothing ever hits so hard and you have pomanders to aid you inside. I'd expect (I hope) new PotD at 150++ floor will require some serious compositions to tackle it through especially when rankings are at stake.

[ADVSS]

But having a tank makes dungeons easier though because tank is designed to take hits more than anything else. DPS will require more healings than tank as well. PotD is in this spot where you can solo it just fine, because as long as you don't tank too many mobs, nothing ever hits so hard and you have pomanders to aid you inside. I'd expect (I hope) new PotD at 150++ floor will require some serious compositions to tackle it through especially when rankings are at stake.

true that, but have you tried 3 dps dungeons before? As far as the players skill making their dps terrible, how do you suggest that the devs could attempt to fix that issue its sort of something they cant fix, but is an issue that can cause content like story nidhogg completely unclearable even. Which can be a serious issue. if not addressed or fixed, which to me is probably why theyre doing this as their way of addressing the issue

[Sarcatica]

true that, but have you tried 3 dps dungeons before? As far as the players skill making their dps terrible, how do you suggest that the devs could attempt to fix that issue its sort of something they cant fix, but is an issue that can cause content like story nidhogg completely unclearable even. Which can be a serious issue. if not addressed or fixed, which to me is probably why theyre doing this as their way of addressing the issue

All of the guides on how to do huge damage are all made by the community. Openers are more or less the same with some variance on the fights, then the rest comes with properly managing your combos, dots, damage modifier and so on. It's safe to say that these players don't bother looking for those guides because they have no need to, or perhaps they just don't care at all. This IMO creates the illusion of "as long as I clear, my DPS is good enough", then comes the harder contents where they are struggling to clear and THEN this leads to another few problems like "my DPS was fine in that previous run (when in reality the person in question might have been carried in DPS), these other DPS are just doing very low DPS" or "I am doing low DPS and I need to improve". Now, stop for a moment here. Majority of the players do not know the real metric of their own DPS nor the standard of what they should aim for. This is for sure on SE, how do you improve players' skills to DPS better? There are multiple of ways to help players realize they are doing suboptimal DPS. The obvious one is to put a parser into the game so everyone has access to the information. But this has been a very controversial topic ever since ages ago and it remains that way, people even take it too personal and DPS players tend to be the offenders so far. SE probably can't put a gate to lock players out too just because they are incompetent to dish out standard DPS to clear like any Story mode which most players would be playing heavily.

For example:
1. DRK's whole DPS plan is on the Delirium when you wanna save mana, use mana for CnS and Souleater (DADP on mobs), have Blood Weapon up as much to be able to spam more DASE.
2. PLD's DPS = Goring Blade dot up all time, Royal Authority spam, shield proc for Shield Swipe, SwO up for as much as possible, maximize FoF on best 13 GCDs.
3. WAR's = Fell Cleaves, Maim and Storm's Eye up, Overpower/Decimate on mobs, Berserk appropriately for the best 9 GCDs.

Each and one of the DPS plans for everyone is based on their own priority system, DPS roles have their own priorities and even healers have them too.

SE needs to take a real stance (for the worse or better) to lessen the skillgap between top players and your averagejoes.