Thread: Making Jobs Rotationally Easier in 4.0

Originally Posted by Jpec07

Snip too long

The thing is some posters here don't advocate doing DPS even when their primary responsibility is met. Now that's the issue. Most tanks don't know how to maximize damage output is also another one. You can have tanks doing as low as 400dps and on the extreme side, some tanks can do 1.5k dps, both are doing the same fight. How does that happen actually? Is it just a coincidence that most tanks that advocate pure tanking do as low as 500dps (pls check if anyone here gets that number btw), when optimally you can do 800dps in full tank stance? For tanks to have as high as 60% difference in DPS despite both in the same tank stance uptime is sketchy. People aren't readily going to admit they do low DPS either nor they will say they can't press buttons in a logical way. One word I can say: skill. This is why the discussions always end up in a huge mess because it represents 2 sides that dont want to talk it out. A good discussion can only happen when common issues and understanding match.

How do you feel yourself when you see OTs in 24mans doing way less DPS than you especially when you are main tank, and even worse you are on 100% tank stance? That's a huge red flag people need to look into. And this is not even looking at those DPS at 200dps in Weeping, for goodness sake.

Originally Posted by Sarcatica

Is it wrong then that SE designs encounters that way?

Yes, it is, because is makes void most of what a tank is supposed to be.
Enmity ? Never an issue.
Mitigation ? Far too much situations where you don't need it.

The fact that Vit was mostly useless before the AP change (Remind that Vit accessories were the only one where tank could actually roll need) and that Parry has absolutely no noticeable effect is a clear hint that they don't know how to properly manage tank jobs. It could be expected though, it already was a big mess in FFXI...

I think it depends a lot on your relationship with said person. If you barely know the person it's pretty easy to call them out and be rude about their performance (whether the rudeness is intended or not, it still usually comes off as rude to that person). If it's somebody you've known for a while and would consider a friend, you're not going to call them out in the same way. At least that's a problem I've run into before. And yes, there is only so much you can do to help before having to part ways with a member that is holding you back.

Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

e: Also you're part of a group of 8 people, "ego" would be not caring about doing everything you can and just trying to shoot for the bare minimum - you put your own needs (not really being bothered to do more than the absolute minimum) above others.

No, that's more like just being a slacker. Ego is self-pride, ie caring about your fflogs ranking, clear times, encounter dps, how you spanked that boss in sword oath, etc etc. People with large egos are usually doing more than the bare minimum, and usually responsibly for most of the calling out of said "slackers"

Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

I wonder how the community would react to a raid boss that has an enrage timer, and also hits enrage if you do more than a certain amount of dps during each phase. I'd wanna see that.

Leviathan and Ifrit EX say hello
And, IIRC, several turns were changed in Coil because of "bad phase transition".

And enrage is really the lazyest mechanic...

Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

If you mitigate just enough to not die, you'd end up causing excess healer stress.

Actually, the meta says the exact opposite. Mitigates more than you need to survive and you're probably sacrificing too much DPS for it.

Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Also you're part of a group of 8 people, "ego" would be not caring about doing everything you can

I still fail to see what lunatic decided that "doing everything you can" meant "doing as much DPS you can" when you're a tank or a healer and designed fights around this.

Originally Posted by Sarcatica

Ofc it matters most if you are failing checks, but more often that not, DPS have to work harder to compensate for low DPS tanks and healers.

So, having a bad tank can end in you failing the DPS checks and thus losing the fight...wouldn't have it been more in line with the concept to design fights where a bad tank would just...not survive ? In the end, it's the same result, you lost because you had a bad tank.