Thread: Making Jobs Rotationally Easier in 4.0

I'm surprised people are asking for bloodbath to be combined with foresight. If anything I think I'd ask for bloodbath to be combined with berserk lol.

Originally Posted by aleph_null

I'm surprised people are asking for bloodbath to be combined with foresight. If anything I think I'd ask for bloodbath to be combined with berserk lol.

Bloodbath, Conval, Awareness, and Foresight are minor crossclasses, Berserk is not.

Good point, I guess mixing bloodbath into berserk makes it inaccessible by other tanks.

Originally Posted by aleph_null

Good point, I guess mixing bloodbath into berserk makes it inaccessible by other tanks.

That might not be a problem post-4.0

SE seems to be moving away from the class system. At the start of HW, Yoshi confirmed that ALL future jobs will not have starter classes. There will just be jobs from here on out. They also already confirmed that they want to reassess how the cross class system works, as some skill are seen as mandatory in the community. Provoke, in particular, was singled out for Tanks, because it's required for any content with a tank-swap mechanic. I wouldn't be surprised to see SE completely remove cross-class skills in the future and replacing it with something else, like universal skills that are role-specific. The only question would be which skills become universal and which remain exclusive.

They only change I hope they make is that they combine the stances into one button and at endgame you will never be without a stance as you will either be in your dps or tanking stance. No more "Tank go into your stance" at the start of every fight. The exception to this is DRK as Darkside acts more like a persistent dmg buff and opening up more tools than an actual stance. This specifically relates to PLD and WAR.

For example, for WAR, Inner Beast and Fell Cleave will be on the same button but is dependent on their respective stances and can only be accessed as such. So by merging Defiance/Deliverance, Inner Beast/Fell Cleave, and Steel Cyclone/Decimate, you've effectively opened up 3 more slots on your crossbar.

But honestly I think the tanks got it good in terms of "easy rotations". They have an enmity combo, a dps combo and a dot button/combo. That's really all they need and now they just need to focus on more defensive cds or ways to enhance said combos similar to DRK. No other rotations needed as we are tanks and we already have a defensive cd rotation to focus on.

I think a lot of topics like this miss the point.

In regards to the simplification of rotations, SE's main line of reasoning was that the gap between top players and everyone else was simply growing too large. It made content hard to design and even harder to tune.

Looking specifically at tanks, we might be more guilty of this than DPS. The performance gap between a top tier tank and your average tank is gigantic right now. Not only does a top tier tank deal way more damage individually, the difference in how a top tier tank takes less consequential damage and handles the nuances of positioning and mechanics also increases the DPS of the raid and the overall smoothness of the fight.

But the solution is a bit more complicated than changing our rotation. Tanks already have a very low skill floor with a very simple rotation. The gap in performance is generally not from their rotation but that's not to say the rotation can't be changed to make the gap in performance smaller.

Originally Posted by Brian_

I think a lot of topics like this miss the point.

In regards to the simplification of rotations, SE's main line of reasoning was that the gap between top players and everyone else was simply growing too large. It made content hard to design and even harder to tune.

Looking specifically at tanks, we might be more guilty of this than DPS. The performance gap between a top tier tank and your average tank is gigantic right now. Not only does a top tier tank deal way more damage individually, the difference in how a top tier tank takes less consequential damage and handles the nuances of positioning and mechanics also increases the DPS of the raid and the overall smoothness of the fight.

More than anything IMO healers are more guilty than any other roles, not to say tanks don't have any part but yeah. Good healers can do both healing and DPS really well and this synergizes well with tanks that know how to maximize their potential. The hard topic is that not everyone is on the idea of tanks and healers able to maximize DPS due to them relying each other to do well. Some groups have high DPS tanks and healers, some have high DPS tanks and low DPS healers, likewise some have low DPS tanks and high DPS healers. The tank and healer role feed off each other depending on the skill level of the users, unlike the DPS role that only mostly benefit from the positioning and ability to do mechanics at the same time.