Concerns about " Getting rid of unused and ineffective actions"

[Duelle]

I think circumventing combat by using CC is a great way to use CC. It adds a bit more variety and thought towards trash rather than the current.

Trash mobs are a pacing mechanism to dungeon progress, not something you should aim to skip just because you don't want to fight them. This isn't like trying to edge around a pack of mobs, as your chances of success are roughly 50-50 (this is easily proven in normal Hullbreaker Isle).

What you're suggesting puts way too much power in the hands of classes with CC. And again, being able to sleep a room's worth of mobs to rush the boss is not balanced and should definitely not be rewarded.

[Shurrikhan]

Trash mobs are a pacing mechanism to dungeon progress, not something you should aim to skip just because you don't want to fight them. This isn't like trying to edge around a pack of mobs, as your chances of success are roughly 50-50 (this is easily proven in normal Hullbreaker Isle).

What you're suggesting puts way too much power in the hands of classes with CC. And again, being able to sleep a room's worth of mobs to rush the boss is not balanced and should definitely not be rewarded.

Other situations could make it feel both balancing and rewarding, however. For instance, if friendly fire was more of a thing for enemy mobs, you could CC as to get mobs to arrive in time for a boss attack that would damage them, rather than locking them out completely. They're still a threat; you just have a new, creative, and speedier (although riskier) way to deal with them.

I'd still take the lock-out option over nothing, though. At worst, you can give bonus whatever per-mob or at the end of the run based on clear rate, as long as those rewards have a different priority than would be the point of a CC speedrun.

Why not give it pacification? That'd be more useful and make more sense. You're not really stuck after getting hit like that, just dazed.

And apparently in 1.0 it had a bonus hitting from the front, which also makese sense and would be nice to have back.

The original Haymaker was just a really strong attack, while Jarring Blow provided a stun. The frontal bonus was on Concussive Blow, added with all other positionals in 1.18, the mass Yoshida revision to the combat system, as the second part of Pugilist's primary combo, and it inflicted Blind.

I'd agree though that Pacification would make a lot of sense, but at the same time that could actually increase damage done against you, as all Pacification really does is remove specials, the majority of which are dodgeable and prevent auto-attacks during their cast. A slow is generally more effective, even if its effects aren't very visual. Ideally, I'd like it to take up a new CC type, Daze, which would function as a package of lesser debuffs, including an effect on turning speed. That said, that still wouldn't give it any more raid usage, except potentially to help the tank dodge tracking cleaves.

[Alistaire]

I'd agree though that Pacification would make a lot of sense, but at the same time that could actually increase damage done against you, as all Pacification really does is remove specials, the majority of which are dodgeable and prevent auto-attacks during their cast. A slow is generally more effective, even if its effects aren't very visual. Ideally, I'd like it to take up a new CC type, Daze, which would function as a package of lesser debuffs, including an effect on turning speed. That said, that still wouldn't give it any more raid usage, except potentially to help the tank dodge tracking cleaves.

Would honestly be better for them to make good use of existing debuffs first, though I see your point about pacification. The problem with others is if you give 1 job access to a new good one it becomes "in demand" which Yoshi's stated he's against. They could give it paralyze, accuracy down, or several other mob-only (or potion only for players) debuff, but then like candy, you have to bring some for everyone in the class if you're going to bring it at all.

[Shurrikhan]

Would honestly be better for them to make good use of existing debuffs first, though I see your point about pacification. The problem with others is if you give 1 job access to a new good one it becomes "in demand" which Yoshi's stated he's against. They could give it paralyze, accuracy down, or several other mob-only (or potion only for players) debuff, but then like candy, you have to bring some for everyone in the class if you're going to bring it at all.

Just depends on how potent the effect actually is. And then there's always new ways of scaling debuffs, so they're not always a flat percentage that may well be pathetic on insignificant mobs (and therefore always outvalued by pure dps) while mandatory against stronger ones, such as by creating a means of 'conditional damage' or 'AP/SP-modified potency'.

Something being unique doesn't make it required; something being uniquely powerful does. And that's what balance is for.