Main Scenario Restriction Bloodstorm - Very Very Bad idea.

[Neophyte]

Enough people to justify a really quick nerf of just everything about that trial.

You're seeing this backwards. Story won't help clear content, but clearing the content was required to see the story. And lots of people complained about not being able to see the story. Again, why do you think we have Alex Normal ?

So, a few dozen people you know don't care about the story ? Yeah, totally relevant, considering the playerbase is far above several hundred thousands. Besides, you might want to look at the definition of no one. You might be surprised.

And again, no one we don't claim you need the story to clear a dungeon. Just that the story itself is a huge motivation for a lot of players...in case it wasn't clear the first three times, enough players so that the Dev team decided to make a story mode of Alex. And with that, the hardcore raiders even complained that they didn't have a story incentive to do Alex Savage, so that the Dev Team starts considering side-"what-if"-stories tied to it.

Yep, clearly, no one cares...

But why does people who don't care about the story (or as I said quite often now: Someone like me who cares, but wants to have a 2nd or 3rd character in end-game content) even bother you?

As Terribad explained: Doing all the MSQ isn't doing anything good or worse to the overall player skill. There are some who care about getting good, and some who don't. That has nothing to do with doing MSQ.
Yes, MSQ is a slow way to learn every bit of the game in a set pace... but what, if someone doesn't want to, but wants to learn the ins and outs of the battle content with PotD or with friends in current content? As if they care that the first 20 runs with their friend are kinda rough. All I see is that you want to prevent them from that.
Maybe a girl-/boyfriend who enjoyed the story together with you and then decides to make an own account and enjoy the further story together with 2 characters? Too bad, you're only entiteld to leave base game after 280+ quests.

If people still have a sprout for 168h and get encouraged to learn their class there is no problem. This encouragment to actually learn a bit about your class has to be created anyway. They could also create something like an alternate 10h long MSQ (you can already be level 50) which leads people into the game mechanics and "what has happened". Make it cost ~20€ like a DCL for a normal game to justify those extra works for that, pff..

And also: If FF is that story-centered and there are mostly people joining this game and staying subbed for the story... what exactly do you fear?! There will only be a small percentage (mostly players who already did it or really wants to do the things which i named above) who actually buys it. So... if you're right, why should anyone even jump into this game and actually want such things? And if you're wrong, well, then you're wrong.
Every € from a no-story-player can be invested in creating more and better story for me and you. So why not?

I ask again... why do you even care? Can you please make a [*list][*/list]with every aspect affecting you (or me or any other player you currently know) in a negative way, if there were.. let's say.. 5% of the player base in end game, which actually have skipped the ARR MSQ? Aspects which can be unambigious referred to those x% (overall player skill is not such a thing, as you have said by yourself and which got elaborated quite often now).


Oh, also another question: Why do you think the raid stories and the triad one are actually optional? Why did we not had to complete coil to enter HW?

[Reynhart]

As Terribad explained: Doing all the MSQ isn't doing anything good or worse to the overall player skill.

This is actually false, in a way. Sure, doing MSQ will not make you a godly tank or a wonderful DPS. But grinding your job only through FATES will teach you nothing about how to even hold aggro, heal of dodging AoE. (And if doing dungeons is not required, people will make FATE groups to grind, it is faster) At worse, you'll end with people who didn't even care to unlock their job skills because you don't need them in FATES. I'm sure you'll love running with a PLD who doesn't even know what Shield Oath is.

MSQ gating is the last proof we have that the game asks any form of dedication. If you keep asking less and less, people will be giving less and less and complain more and more. Dungeons nowadays are more and more streamlined because of that. Steps Of Faith, the first story trial that actually required a bit of group coordination, was butchered to the point that you don't even need the canons of the dragon killer to kill Vishap.

The game is supposed to teach you how to play better and better, not giving you easier and easier content because you can't be bothered to learn.

Why do you think the raid stories and the triad one are actually optional? Why did we not had to complete coil to enter HW?

Because those trials were too challenging. Would you dare tell me that MSQ gating is a bad thing because it's...challenging ?
On the other side, why do you think these raids and trials actually have lore and stories attached to it, if, like some claim here, no one cares ?

[Pintsized]

On the other side, why do you think these raids and trials actually have lore and stories attached to it, if, like some claim here, no one cares ?

To pander to the elitists and make them feel special that they get to see what the 'scrubs' can't?

[Reynhart]

To pander to the elitists and make them feel special that they get to see what the 'scrubs' can't?

So, the mere fact of being able to clear the raid and enjoying a good story out of it is being elitist, now ?
Things have gone down real sour...

If you want to release a jump potion that can only be used for alts

Maybe they could make some access accountwide for Alts.

[Brian_]

But why does people who don't care about the story (or as I said quite often now: Someone like me who cares, but wants to have a 2nd or 3rd character in end-game content) even bother you?

As Terribad explained: Doing all the MSQ isn't doing anything good or worse to the overall player skill. There are some who care about getting good, and some who don't. That has nothing to do with doing MSQ.
Yes, MSQ is a slow way to learn every bit of the game in a set pace... but what, if someone doesn't want to, but wants to learn the ins and outs of the battle content with PotD or with friends in current content? As if they care that the first 20 runs with their friend are kinda rough. All I see is that you want to prevent them from that.
Maybe a girl-/boyfriend who enjoyed the story together with you and then decides to make an own account and enjoy the further story together with 2 characters? Too bad, you're only entiteld to leave base game after 280+ quests.

If people still have a sprout for 168h and get encouraged to learn their class there is no problem. This encouragment to actually learn a bit about your class has to be created anyway. They could also create something like an alternate 10h long MSQ (you can already be level 50) which leads people into the game mechanics and "what has happened". Make it cost ~20€ like a DCL for a normal game to justify those extra works for that, pff..

Your examples are not the majority. They are specific and situational examples. That's the problem. If you want to release a jump potion that can only be used for alts or with a RaF code, then I think SE would ask if it's worth the trouble to cater to such a minority when they should be looking at majority based solutions. They already give people the option to spam click through dialogue, skip cut-scenes, under-size rush trials and dungeons, and burn through the MSQ.

And the MSQ does make a difference. I think most people have come across a healer or tank that has leveled exclusively through FATE spam as opposed to by doing dungeons. The MSQ at least does something to try and guarantee a very basic competence.

So, in order to cater to your specific examples, you are throwing the majority of players under the bus. Yea, some people who use the leveling pot will be doing it for an alt. Some will have outside help for self improvement. The majority will just be regular new MMO players who bought an expansion and want to just jump into the current content. Do you not see the blatant skew in equivalency there?

Games that use leveling pots need to be designed specifically for them. Earlier, I told people to think back to 3.0's release. Dusk Vigil and Ravana, the first dungeon and trial of the expansion, were not designed for players completely new to FFXIV. Players were dumped straight into the thick of things because it was expected 2.X's MSQ prepped you for it. When we get an expansion with a means of skipping straight to it, it'll require a much more specific design that allows new players enough of an introduction but doesn't bore veterans.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Pretty sure most just want the fat trimmed. Say the ability to go 1-60 without 499 sidequest working for fed-ex. The group dungeons, the important instanced solo combat MSQ, and job quests.

To actually level just as fast as if playing your first playthrough experience wise, but cutting all the padding out. They could still keep the filler quest for extra experience/lore lovers but just not needed.

And Stormblood could add it's own time fillers, and when the next expansion comes out after it, the Stormblood expansion gets trimmed as well.

Trimming old content would be nice, in theory. Unfortunately, it's not going to come without cost. Any part of story condensed will necessitate rewrites and new animations to keep the story cohesive. You cannot just remove say, the company of heroes questline, and have players immediately go into fighting Titan, otherwise the story would become a convoluted mess. Any further tweaks, like unlocking dungeon requirements or opening the game entirely from the word go, would need additional coding. Keep in mind, the devs have said repeatedly how difficult its been just to make queueing into dungeons with our Chocobo out or dyeing only certain sections of clothes because they didn't originally code the game in such a way as to allow those features. Therefore, whatever time and resources are needed to overhaul the MSQ would be subtracted from Stormblood's budget, all for content none of us current players will ever see. Now if it wound up being cost efficient, then sure, this might be the ideal solution. On the other hand, if it took a sizable portion of the budget. I'd rather they do a jump potion and not allocate money to content I'll never even see unless I level an alt.

Games that use leveling pots need to be designed specifically for them. Earlier, I told people to think back to 3.0's release. Dusk Vigil and Ravana, the first dungeon and trial of the expansion, were not designed for players completely new to FFXIV. Players were dumped straight into the thick of things because it was expected 2.X's MSQ prepped you for it. When we get an expansion with a means of skipping straight to it, it'll require a much more specific design that allows new players enough of an introduction but doesn't bore veterans.

Even at release, Ravana was easy. Dungeons have never been difficult, even if you happen to get someone with little to no idea where they've doing. You are overstating the impact it would have, especially seeing the amount of players who did opt for this expensive means of accessing the expansion wouldn't outnumber even current players. You'll have nearly the same likelihood of coming across someone bad as you do now. Eventually, things would balance themselves out-- with people who cannot be bothered to learn how to play the game properly leaving and those genuinely interested learning of their own volition. Not to mention, WoW's jump potion also forces those who purchased it into their equivalent of a "Hall of Novice," where people had to complete certain dungeons or whatever to "prove" they had a general idea how to play their chosen job. No reason to think something like that wouldn't be required for FFXIV too. Think like, "complete the following number of dungeons/trials/raid"

[Reynhart]

Even at release, Ravana was easy.

Not for everyone, and there was legitimate tricky mechanics than can surprise you even if you're a good player.

People who cannot be bothered to learn their jobs, won't stay.

That's where you're wrong...they stay...and they complain over and over about how <insert_instance_name> is too hard.
Besides, job is not the only thing that the MSQ teach you. You also face a lot of important mechanics in those fights.
The gaze mechanics, the pack mechanic, the break-the-chain mechanics, the tower mechanic, etc...all of those are taught in a "newbie-friendly" way in story dungeons/trials so that you can deal with theirmuch harsher version in optional content.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Not for everyone, and there was legitimate tricky mechanics than can surprise you even if you're a good player.

Right. And not everyone who used a jump potion would find him difficult.

That's where you're wrong...they stay...and they complain over and over about how <insert_instance_name> is too hard.
Besides, job is not the only thing that the MSQ teach you. You also face a lot of important mechanics in those fights.
The gaze mechanics, the pack mechanic, the break-the-chain mechanics, the tower mechanic, etc...all of those are taught in a "newbie-friendly" way in story dungeons/trials so that you can deal with theirmuch harsher version in optional content.

Are we really going to suggest these mechanics are difficult to learn? Gaze, you look away. Towers, one person stand in the glowy spot on the floor. Giant arrows targeting one person, everyone stacks. All of these can be figured out either through very simple trial and error or by being told exactly in the manner I just did. Not to mention, plenty of people who may favor a jump potion are already MMO players and would have a general idea of those mechanics, especially trash pulls. Furthermore, a "Proven Grounds" like how WoW does it, would explicitly showcase these mechanics if you were required to complete certain dungeons. That all said, you can learn how to play this game within a day using nothing but Youtube. When I first started tanking, I looked up newbie tank guides, then those dedicated to Dark Knight. Those taught me far more than the game itself ever did. Keep in mind, people like MrHappy and Mizzteq literally explain every single mechanic you'll see in every dungeon within the first week of their release. Someone skipping ahead may also have friends, who would explain mechanics and/or the selected job.

[Reynhart]

Are we really going to suggest these mechanics are difficult to learn? Gaze, you look away. Towers, one person stand in the glowy spot on the floor. Giant arrows targeting one person, everyone stacks.

Considering they had to nerf Blighted Bouquet because "Stopping any action" was apparently really difficult...yes, we might suggest that

But the problem is not the difficulty, but the punishment. In dungeons, failing these mechanics won't result in a wipe, so you'll have time to learn how to deal with it by yourself.
In raids you fail a stack, you wipe, you fail a gaze, you wipe, you fail a tower, you wipe, you fail a split, you wipe...

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Considering they had to nerf Blighted Bouquet because "Stopping any action" was apparently really difficult...yes, we might suggest that

But the problem is not the difficulty, but the punishment. In dungeons, failing these mechanics won't result in a wipe, so you'll have time to learn how to deal with it by yourself.
In raids you fail a stack, you wipe, you fail a gaze, you wipe, you fail a tower, you wipe, you fail a split, you wipe...

Touche.

Yes, but they wouldn't be going into raids. If you were jumped ahead to Stormblood, it would be the equivalent of Heavensward now. So you would be doing dungeons and occasional easy mode primals. And like I said, guides are available as would be a "Proven Grounds" type requirement.