Main Scenario Restriction Bloodstorm - Very Very Bad idea.

[Niwashi]

I still don't see anything wrong with them gating jobs behind MSQ. If a player wants something, they'll typically do whatever it takes to get.

One of the big problems with gating jobs behind content is that it prevents the possibility of being able to do that content *with* those jobs.

That issue doesn't apply to locking content behind content, though. I see no downsides to locking dungeons, trials, etc behind MSQ progress, just as the game has always done. It's essential anytime those dungeons relate to the story (as most should if they're going to have a purpose for being here). And certainly the new sections of MSQ should be gated behind previous ones. Unlocking new regions without MSQ requirements prevents the initial travel to those regions from being used as part of the story, so while (depending on the story) it might not always be essential to gate travel access, it's certainly valid to do so.

It's really just the jobs that would benefit from not being as deeply gated as they were for Heavensward. I also think unlocking those earlier would help calm the torrent of complaints about the rest of the MSQ gating. A few might still grumble about not being able to do the top tier raid immediately with their brand new underleveled character, but I think most would be happy with being able to try out the new jobs while they continue progressing through the MSQ on their way towards the new expansion's main content.

[Terribad]

it would create an even deeper chasm

There's currently no chasm to make even deeper.....

Playing through the story teaches you nothing. If it did, there wouldn't be so many awful terribads. I know a guy that's literally done about 80-85% of the quests in game, he's AWFUL. He doesn't use his cross class skills or even his job skills, I as a bard outdps him and he's a SMN, it shouldn't even be possible. Not to mention all the randos I meet that knows the story but won't use their soul crystals or flash. The MSQs teaches you nothing but lore about the game. Which, spoiler alert, a good chunk of people don't care about. MMO stories are boring and will never be as good a single player, let it be optional, it's not hurting you.

Pretty bold (no pun intended) claim you did here.

No, but not being able to clear the raid and thus not being able to learn that story was a pretty big complain for Coil, remember ?

Not being able to clear Steps Of Faith was also a big problem, even though, at that point, the only thing gated by it was...story.

Who couldn't clear Steps Of Faith? Trash players? Which has nothing to do with them actually paying attention to the story? Same with coil? Reading a bunch of text isn't going to help someone clear a raid....

And no, that's not a big claim. I have not paid attention to this story at all, most of my FC skips the story. ALL of my last 3 FCs skipped the story. No one has ever turned them down for a party, ignored them, or even knew they skipped the story unless they said so. Why? Because you don't need to know the story to down a dungeon, so no one really cares.

XI's story and lore would like to have a word with you. WoW's entire lore background and following development would also like to call you out on that.

Can't speak on XI, WoW's story was boring and completely optional. c:

[Welsper59]

MMO stories are boring and will never be as good a single player

XI's story and lore would like to have a word with you. WoW's entire lore background and following development would also like to call you out on that. Even SWTOR could rival some single player games with certain story arcs.

[KaitlanKela]

Again, point = missed.

It's not about the story. Skip the cutscenes, who cares? It's about using the MSQ's content and instances to gradually ease people into gameplay and the complexities of their jobs and the game. You cannot just hand someone a level 60 character in a level 60-70 area and expect them to not be a burden on every single group their paired with for a long, long time. That's not fair to people who leveled up their jobs and by so doing learned how to play them properly and contribute to a group. Unless you think that The Aery or The Vault or Aetherochem is no more difficult conceptually than Sastasha then we can agree that putting people in endgame level dungeons that have no business playing at that level is a BAD idea.

[Welsper59]

Can't speak on XI, WoW's story was boring and completely optional. c:

What's an example of a good story for you? Are you looking at things exclusively from one story arc? WoW, for example, is hailed for wide array of story elements scattered across the game. If all you're looking at is one example, then you're not a good source for judgment on the matter. There's a very robust amount of lore in that games universe. Might not be for everyone, but your bold and non-subjective statements don't make you a good example of anything positive to say for the matter. Also, the optional bit was not at all what I was commenting on, so let's just leave that one on the side.

[Reynhart]

Who couldn't clear Steps Of Faith?

Enough people to justify a really quick nerf of just everything about that trial.

Reading a bunch of text isn't going to help someone clear a raid....

You're seeing this backwards. Story won't help clear content, but clearing the content was required to see the story. And lots of people complained about not being able to see the story. Again, why do you think we have Alex Normal ?

And no, that's not a big claim. I have not paid attention to this story at all, most of my FC skips the story. ALL of my last 3 FCs skipped the story.

So, a few dozen people you know don't care about the story ? Yeah, totally relevant, considering the playerbase is far above several hundred thousands. Besides, you might want to look at the definition of no one. You might be surprised.

And again, no one we don't claim you need the story to clear a dungeon. Just that the story itself is a huge motivation for a lot of players...in case it wasn't clear the first three times, enough players so that the Dev team decided to make a story mode of Alex. And with that, the hardcore raiders even complained that they didn't have a story incentive to do Alex Savage, so that the Dev Team starts considering side-"what-if"-stories tied to it.

Yep, clearly, no one cares...

[Terribad]

What's an example of a good story for you?

If you're talking about MMO wise, I seriously have yet to run across a MMO with good story. MMOs have way too much filler (which they have to have) for them to be considered "good" to me. I'm assuming it's the same for a good number of people as well. Hence why so many people just grind to max level. If I want a good amazing story, I'll play a single player RPG.

And no, let's not leave the optional bit on the side, because that's what a lot of us are asking for. To make the story OPTIONAL, if we want to grind to 60, let us. You just said you liked WoW's story and that story is optional, funny how it didn't effect your enjoyment of it at all.

Enough people to justify a really quick nerf of just everything about that trial.

So what you're saying is, they had to nerf Steps of Faith WHILE the MSQ is mandatory? That seems to be going WITH my point. The story doesn't teach you anything a crappy player will ALWAYS be crappy until they decide to learn their class.

You're seeing this backwards. Story won't help clear content, but clearing the content was required to see the story. And lots of people complained about not being able to see the story. Again, why do you think we have Alex Normal ?

What does that have to do with anything? A few people (cause I was there when the huge arguement happened) wanted to see what happened from 1.0 but didn't want to raid. What does that have to do with making MSQs optional? Um...nothing.

So, a few dozen people you know don't care about the story ? Yeah, totally relevant, considering the playerbase is far above several hundred thousands. Besides, you might want to look at the definition of no one. You might be surprised.

Are you slightly autistic or what? The point of that was I know loads of people who don't care about the story yet NO ONE has ever denied us to a party, kicked us from a party, or stopped us from doing anything because we didn't know the story. That is the point....Her point was that there's a divide, my point was that no one cares if you know the story or not because it doesn't stop you from completing a dungeon.



When you're all said and done, making the MSQ optional does not effect you in any way. If someone wants to grind to 60, let them. If someone wants to smash their face against a chocobo's butt to level 60...let them. It's not bothering you, the story option is still there for you to enjoy. Like how the chick above enjoyed WoW's story just fine while I skipped it just fine.

[Chalbee]

some stuff

Not buying it one bit. I personally don't like to waste my time. I like to use my time to accomplish goals which I set for myself. Generally speaking, leveling a job I don't like is not among those goals.

My point is that in the current system, someone who wants to play Astro has to do something else first, whereas someone who wants to play Conjurer/White Mage does not. On another note, you could go from 1-50 as a tank and then be an Astrologian, so your "you need to do the other classes first" argument doesn't hold water. Gating them behind the MSQ neither ensures that you'll have appropriate cross-class skills or that you'll be familiar with the role.

Also, I have no idea how that last sentence is relevant to anything. Congratulations I guess?

[Naunet]

Opinions are a wonderful thing aren't they? I still don't see anything wrong with them gating jobs behind MSQ. If a player wants something, they'll typically do whatever it takes to get.

This is a GAME - you realize that, yes? "Do whatever it takes" - at no point should it be so un-fun to access something as basic as a job or a dungeon or a zone (that you have PAID FOR) that a player considers quitting.

Stop excusing crappy design.

Wasting time is literally the point of playing games.

No. The point of playing games is to have fun.

[Chalbee]

Wasting time is literally the point of playing games.

Pretty sure having fun is literally the point of playing games.

play, verb to engage in activity for enjoyment and recreation rather than a serious or practical purpose