SE must be drunk.

[Reynhart]

The rest of the tier is just singing Ballad and/or Foes which is for the benefits of the team, in the first place they are used in raid mostly for support.

To support the team with ballad, they must sacrifice part of their damage output. If one specific tank could provide it, they wouldn't have too. BRD and MCH are capable of doing really great numbers when they're focused on DPSing so they're valuable even if they don't support the team with Ballad or Paeon. And casters would love more Requiem uptime.

What is considered as "high" DPS anyway? Is 500dps high? Is 1.4k low? Your definition will be different than let's say mine.

The exact number is not the problem. high DPS depends on the maximum output of the job. But you're no what personal DPS contribution is when compared to raid wide DPS contribution.

Then can we expect 50% of the community to clear A12S before 4.0? If it's so easy, why aren't we all cleared already?

Simple. Because 90% of the population actually don't even set foot in Alex Savage. Not because they won't be able to clear it but because they don't care.

this are the best jobs for me, tank just to be a meatpunch is boring.

Right, "for you". Why should we all have to feel the same when we have three tanks to chose ?

[Seku]

Actually, no, there was a huge difference.

I had a leveling static where I played PLD, and we had a THF and a SAM. At lvl 33, the more famous skillchain was Tachi: Enpi - Viper Bite, used with Sneak Attack and Trick Attack.
The thing is, SA+TA-VB was so powerful that keeping aggro on that was very difficult. So, frequently, the SAM provoked the mob away from the tank, so that the THF could align behind the tank and behind the mob.

But, if you knew how to hold aggro really well, you could keep the mob on you, while the THF stayed behind the mob and the SAM, and the mob wouldn't turn around.
In FFXI, DPS were much more powerful but were limited by how many enmity the tank could generate. When you ended with a good tank as a DPS, you really felt like you didn't have to hold back and it was a great feeling, for the tank and for the DPS.
.

And this shows me how much you don't know anything about 11, even while trying to compare it to a totally different game. Good job also on killing your DPS on 11, if you ever go back, should try utsusemi rotating as a ninja or actually having the Sam tank through seigan and third eye as well as taking no damage keeps your hate up and both dish out more damage. Also you should have your THF split SA and TA, since SA works off Dex and TA works off AGI, would need two different sets for those, stacking them, more so at a low level always results in a DPS lost. Also make sure your thf is using a cross bow at such a low level due to the low base damage of daggers, making them useless on just about anything other than their DEX, R.ACC, and R.ATK. Other wise the only thing their good for is TH if you're trying to collect on items to get your crafting up.

TLDR:
Please learn to play FF11 before trying to compare it to a totally different game.

[Reynhart]

Please learn to play FF11 before trying to compare it to a totally different game.

Wow, this is wonderful.
Wonderful ignorance...

First, Seigan was only introduced in 2006, so SAM didn't have it while I was leveling PLD. Second, I played PLD, so tell me how I should rotate Utsusemi...and last, around level 30, you stacked SA and TA because TA might have a chance to miss and you want to stack as much base damage as you could before applying the WS multipliers.

Trying to give lesson with so little knowledge...

As for your Crossbow vs Dagger thing, this is so irrelevant and so wrong that I'm pretty sure you just mentionned it here to gossip.

[Seku]

Wow, this is wonderful.
Wonderful ignorance...

First, Seigan was only introduced in 2006, so SAM didn't have it while I was leveling PLD. Second, I played PLD, so tell me how I should rotate Utsusemi...and last, around level 30, you stacked SA and TA because TA might have a chance to miss and you want to stack as much base damage as you could before applying the WS multipliers.

Trying to give lesson with so little knowledge...

As for your Crossbow vs Dagger thing, this is so irrelevant and so wrong that I'm pretty sure you just mentionned it here to gossip.

Never stated as a PLD, as PLD was useless with people that knew how to count shadows and roll between utsumi, more so a RDM, at max level unless you had a Ageis and I can tell already you didn't. It was also useless in a good party that knew how to control hate properly and count shadows on slow attacking mobs. No one blood tank and if they did, the nearest DPS would throw up their -50% damage taken set until another DPS took it off them.

Also, yes I know SAM's Seigan came out 10 years ago. But if the last time you played was 10 years ago, why are you trying to compare a game that you haven't even played for half it's life span, have no real tanking experience with, and not for long at that if the only experience you have is lv 33, I know you didn't play since launch or you just leveled extremely slow

Sounds like your THF needs to invest into acc if their missing mobs and if they have to worry about missing.

Viper bite is a 100% dex modifer and VB has a base damage multiplier of...1...also TA works outside of this multiplier and just adds on it's base damage to the Weapon skill.
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Trick_Attack
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Viper_Bite - You'll notice the fTP (the base damage multiplier effect) is 1. 1 x 1 is....oh yeah 1. Meaning only DEX really helps your Viper bites.

TA Is agi based and does damage equal to your main hand base damage + AGI, if your thf is in dex gear, when the skill goes off instead of AGI their missing damage.

Nah, trying to help your THF do relevant damage at new player levels so you can stop taking 14 years to get to Lv. 99 and gain a mastery on a job. As well as to show you that at best your experience in tanking in FF11 is that of a new player. Tanking at level 33 is like tanking at level 20-25 in 14.

Cross bow does more damage at level 30 due to their higher base damage. Daggers don't become relevant until you unlock dual wield 2 with a ninja sub for the lower delay the only exception being that you get the extra stats off the daggers, such as AGI, DEX, ACC, ATK, ect. , unless your thf likes sitting round for about 8-10 seconds while TP feeding the mob , as that'll happen at level 30 with daggers instead of 3-4 seconds before popping off a ranged attack with higher base damage and higher potential?

Yet again....stop talking about things you don't know anything about.


FF11 Tanking meta:
https://youtu.be/1XChg3faluA?t=1m45s - shit dies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpYgXkiDe84 - Pld can't keep hate (note dude in the white standing around doing nothing while everyone else goes ape shit to get and switch hate).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5HM7730Kvo - more shadow tanking and DPS fest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8jLL7-TwHA - oh more DPS centered event where RDM/DRK stops all outgoing party damage.

Blood Tanking and arrgo management that people try to say exist in 11 doesn't really exist in 80% of 11. And when it did....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3DqbFb5Fu0 - Note how Sam takes hate. Rotates shadows and uses third eye to avoid all damage, while doing damage is the reason he keeps hate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HywIWjRnZJ8 - Just in case there is any question from the last tanking video. Here's a blm tanking a end game boss. ;o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rqUzWBdCgc - Red mage supporting themselves / MT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-avaKx8mCI - Rdm again killing it with tanking, reducing damage to 0 on two bosses.
Welcome to 2004 - abyessa era FF11. =3

TLDR:
Stop talking about something you know nothing about and trying to compare it to another game. FF11 Was more DPS centered than 14. ;o

[Reynhart]

You'll notice the fTP (the base damage multiplier effect) is 1. 1 x 1 is....oh yeah 1.

You know that fTP is not the damage multiplier but the effect of TP on damage, right ?
You also know that having a second weapon will add 1 to this multiplier, right ?

Oh you're just saying nonsense just to sound smart ?

[Brannigan]

No, if I find a tank that does more DPS than me, it just means that they put more stress on their healer than I. The cooldown rotation is pretty much set in stone for every fight, what they do in between is just keeping their tank stance away as much as their healer can support. That's their "secret".

Just wanted to pop in and say I haven't really found this to be the case in Heavensward thanks to skills like Sheltron and Dark Mind as well as the slightly more random nature of some fights. Additionally, with how tank busters are laid out in HW, you can usually find a place to slip in an extra (Dark) Rampart or two.

Looking at, for example, Cruise Chaser (S), there's nothing you really need to mitigate except for Laser X Sword. As long as you have a couple of things to throw at that, you're pretty much at liberty to use your mitigation wherever you want. Another good one is Living Liquid (S). You only really need mitigation for the drainage tether and slappy hands. Everything else you'll use for cleaves, and how you use them might depend on fight conditions. Are my healers falling behind? Do I need something bigger for this one? Did I just land a Reprisal? Is my Sheltron timing on point today? All of that stuff and your correct usage of cooldowns would factor into whether or not you might be forced back into tank stance and whether or not you created actual additional stress for your healers (costing them time in Cleric Stance).

Anyway congratulations on derailing a thread about poor itemization for welfare gear.

[Reynhart]

Just wanted to pop in and say I haven't really found this to be the case in Heavensward thanks to skills like Sheltron and Dark Mind as well as the slightly more random nature of some fights. Additionally, with how tank busters are laid out in HW, you can usually find a place to slip in an extra (Dark) Rampart or two.

In A1S, PLD's rotation was pretty strict, and even required HG if you face at least 4 Plasmas.

Looking at, for example, Cruise Chaser (S), there's nothing you really need to mitigate except for Laser X Sword.

I haven't tried Creator Savage yet, but if it's close to the normal version, you take pretty consistent and high damage out of tankbusters. Which is exactly the situation where parry could have a noticeable effect in the long run.

[Brannigan]

1) One or two bosses with strict cooldown requirements doesn't mean that "the cooldown rotation is pretty much set in stone for every fight"

2) ??? What tank busters in Cruise Chaser normal ???

[Seku]

You know that fTP is not the damage multiplier but the effect of TP on damage, right ?
You also know that having a second weapon will add 1 to this multiplier, right ?

Oh you're just saying nonsense just to sound smart ?

Having a 2nd weapon doesn't add a multipler, it adds a extra hit if you're doing a multi hit weapon skill, useless in Viper bite.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/TP_Multiplier - no i actually have sources to back my claims. So far you've provided nothing but horrible stories of leveling at 30.

In case you're too lazy to click on the link above, "TP Multiplier (fTP) is a multiplier of your Base Damage when performing weapon skills or physical blue magic. ".

The only other multiplers in a weapon skill, in 11, are your Stats (yet again...Agi, dex, str, atk, ect). Thus it brings this conversation back to the start, your thf needs to stop wasting TA while wearing DEX gear for SA and you shouldn't try and compare a game you know nothing about, more so when it too was focused on a Damage meta. I've already proven the main point in that even in 11, people didn't really care about Hate due to just about anyone being able to defend and if the choice was there would just wreck the mob and left turtle tanking a long time ago.

Any how, I'm done until something of actual merit pops up.

[DaulBan]

Which is exactly the situation where parry could have a noticeable effect in the long run.

Reality so far is no, parry isn't good in A9 and A10s. So I'd say parry is bad.