Unofficial Census 2016 for FFXIV

[zosia]

There is difference between thinking it can be improved and saying it belongs in garbage heap.

Take a look at my post history, plenty of times in the past I tried to provide well thought out constructive feedback. I am done being civil with a dev team that does not deliver. After extra retainers, my sub WAS running me close to $30 a month and I expect a high level of excellence for that, a level which the dev team cannot manage to meet.

To answer you previous question, my sub is canceled as we speak. I have enough prepaid time to probably finish a12s, then I am gone. This dev team makes rookie mistakes right and left. This game has been dumpstered by heavenward, sorry if you have a problem with people calling it like it is.

A game losing roughly 25% of it's end game player base in seven months during the game's first real expansion is a terrible sign. At this point, I am just enjoying all the schadenfreude. I pleaded with the community back in 2015 about the concerns I had pertaining to the state of the end game, namely gordias savage. The casual crew did it's typical humming and hawing in the threads and none of the concerns were ever addressed or commented on by the community team. Now those savage birds are coming home to roost and I LOOOOOOOOOOOOVE being right.

Put two and two together, bub. This is the victory dance, and I will be enjoying myself for some time.

[Istaru]

There is difference between thinking it can be improved and saying it belongs in garbage heap.

I'm curious, is there anything that you feel contributes to the numbers shown in the unofficial census? Is there anything that you believe would improve endgame player retention?

[Thayos]

This is the victory dance, and I will be enjoying myself for some time.

I'm imagining you standing on an aircraft carrier with a giant "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" banner hanging up behind you.

[Cakekizyy]

I'm curious, is there anything that you feel contributes to the numbers shown in the unofficial census? Is there anything that you believe would improve endgame player retention?

I don't think playerbase this game is aimed at and endgame can ever really mesh well.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Where did I ask for a 180? You are being hyperbolic and assuming my position. Just because I believe in the notion of rarity and compelling carrots does not mean I think every last thing in FFXIV needs to be a grind like some korean F2P grindy crapfest.
There is an extreme imbalance in this game when we have no long term carrots to work on that will stay rare. The only real long term goal this game has is housing and that is not even a readily available long term goal on most servers (since there are few severs with lots left).

But, go on, keep defending the status quo. A 24% sub loss over 7 months is nothing to worry about /s

You implied necessitating certain rewards stay at absurdly low drop rates indefinitely. As they do not, this would be a "complete 180". So no, I'm not being hyperbolic nor did I imply you meant every piece of content. Granted, Korean MMOs also do not gate everything behind RNG, just a substantial amount. I, personally, do not find RNG appealing unless I can somehow influence it-- like say, crafting. Why? Because it requires no skill or real effort on my part. I'm ilvl 230+ now, Ravana and Bismarck will melt provided I get a decent group in DF or just go the premade route.

So, in essence, waiting still technically benefits as I will clear Primals faster than were I at their relevant ilvl.

Who said I was defending the status quo? This is a strawman. We simply disagree on what is causing the sub decline. I specifically cited WoW's latest expansion, No May Sky, 3.3 nearing its end and the lack of enough content to sate people who aren't interested in Savage. Hardly what I would call "defending" the game. My point is people bored with the game aren't going to be tempted by pretty mounts when other MMOs offer the same.

My little cousin complains that he can't have donuts for dinner, whats your point? Just because players want something does not mean it's good for the game. Did we not learn anything from gordias savage? You can see how pointless the ponies are now every time you see a whistle drop to the ground. The drop rates were waaaaaay too high.

The only nerf to the pony grind should have been outgearing the content. When players can duo or solo primals, do their respective mounts really need an increased drop rate? I mean, lets be real, if they had stayed around 5%, anyone who wants one today could still easily get them. Buffing them to 15-20%, or w/e the number is, was completely uncalled for.

The point that you are missing is that things are made WAAAAAAAAAAY to easy. SE has never heard of the concept of a goldilocks zone. The coffin lid is another great example. It went from a 1% drop rate to a 100% drop rate. There was absolutely no reason for that. It really should have just been around 30%, similar to other crystal tower furniture.

Again, pretend that this game is not careening down the pipes, you are only hurting your own game by doing so.

Again. You are placing far too great a significance on mount or minion drops. The JP forum even complained they're bored of those, and want to see new collectibles added. Dangling the proverbial carrot is fine, but people who unsub aren't doing so for the reasons you presume. At least not in large amounts. FFXIV has simply stagnated for some while others are playing different games. Frankly speaking, if you aren't into roleplay or Savage (or can't beat it), the game can feeling lacking. That is going to cause sub losses.

In fact, let's look at the Yokai statistics. Despite a estimated 23% drop rate on medals over 300,000 characters has none. Now some may not like Yokai in and of itself, but if you aim to collect minions and mounts, this will be your only opportunity because the event won't return. That limitation still has not motivated 64% of active characters to even bother with one, let alone all thirteen.

Fate grinding is no different than Ravana EX a hundred plus times. They both become incredibly monotonous and require no skill whatsoever.

I understand your point just fine. I simply disagree with it. People aren't going to continue subbing for ponies or pigeons if they're bored of the game. Generally, when you lose interest in a game or hobby, the collectibles don't matter to you anymore. If I were bored of FFXIV, a couple lucky Pigeon drops would not suddenly revitalize my enjoyment of the game.

No one is pretending anything. You just seem incapable of appreciating someone may not share your opinion on the perceived problems. There is a difference.

That being said, the last MMO had me running the equivalent of DREX prolly close to 1000 times before I got the weapon drop. Why did I do it? Because it was BiS and it stayed BiS for the good part of a year and a half. Once I got it, why did I keep running that dungeon for another 1000 times? because I could sell that same drop now that I have one for the equivalent of 100 mil gil.

The thing with Delayed rewards is that it only works with delayed obsolescence with no nerf tampering by the devs.

While you or I may be willing to grind an obscene amount, most people won't. This was already proven even in games with those massive time sinks. Korean MMOs consistently fail in the West because Western gamers typically are not interested in overly monotonous activity. I, again, point to Yokai, and Fate grinding in general. This also cripples new player growth because said players look at the Everest task ahead of them and give up before they even begin. FFXIV has its share of issues; chief among them being the devs do dish out far too much irrelevant gear and lacking any sort of midcore. But mount and minion drops aren't among them. At least not in my opinion.

[CookieMonsta]

I'm curious, is there anything that you feel contributes to the numbers shown in the unofficial census? Is there anything that you believe would improve endgame player retention?

A8S seems actually more successful than A4S in the JP scene. Its a dance, do the dance, do the deeps and you will clear. Its all individual responsibility. Whereas A4S was a total crapshoot gearcheck.

As an endgame player, what would retain me is meaningful lasting progression. I am in the minority but I raid for the intangible rewards of improved reflexes, refined DPS and heightened tactical awareness, much like perfecting a martial art. I play the game for the people and just enjoying their company.
However, I do acknowledge many that need a material reward to keep going, especially once you are past the progression stage. This is the icing on the cake. Without people to play with, SE has lost me.

I also do know that nobody likes their hard-earned reward handed out like candy with time. It devalues the symbolic physical manifestation of effort and dedication required to attain it. I'm all for easing the process which leads up to the attainment but I'm against simply cutting out the reward and giving it elsewhere from a lesser activity.
e.g. allowing padjali weapons to be upgraded to 240 (still worse substats for many classes than the 240 lore) to ease the difficulty in attaining the GobDip, but giving it out for Mhaci Penny is too much.

[Brian_]

snip

You missed the point entirely. It's not about pretty mounts and/or vanity items. It's about rewarding a person's time investment so that they're more inclined to invest more of their time and continue playing.

When you work your butt off for something only to have it become near meaningless weeks later, you're not going to be very enthusiastic about going through that again. When you have less and less reason to invest your time, you have less and less of a reason to stay subbed.

There is a fine balance in a progression centric MMO between earned exclusivity and general accessibility. This game has a heavy skew towards accessibility and that design decision reverberates through the entirety of its content.

[Neophyte]

You missed the point entirely. It's not about pretty mounts and/or vanity items. It's about rewarding a person's time investment so that they're more inclined to invest more of their time and continue playing.

When you work your butt off for something only to have it become near meaninglessweeks later, you're not going to be very enthusiastic about going through that again. When you have less and less reason to invest your time, you have less and less of a reason to stay subbed.

There is a fine balance in a progression centric MMO between earned exclusivity and general accessibility. This game has a heavy skew towards accessibility and that design decision reverberates through the entirety of its content.

Which part of gear is replaced after "a few weeks"? It's more like "3-6 months", depending on gear.

Also people should stop treating this game (or any game) like a retirement arrangement plan where you have to think about "where do I get the best return for my Investment". Just play the stupid game or don't, that's not a tax declaration.

I know a lot of people who are not subbed all the time (like 1 month stop every 2-3 months) and I know a lot of people currently playing Overwatch, No Man's Sky, etc. and only returning for raids&stuff 3 times a week.
I for myself just started healing after 100+d playtime and even que for Mhach or other stuff where I already got my weekly lockout, like A5S/A6S kills, Niddhog, etc.. or I help the boyfriend of an FC member who just started the game. Also I'm usually not doing any farms, just kill groups for ex primals, because they're more fun to play compared with standardized burn&farm groups.
No one of them would play this game more often, if there were longer lasting rewards.. why should they? Because they want to "work their ass off and be rewarded for that."? Well, they already do that... at work.

Like I'd say to the 2-month-sub/1-month-unsub - guy: "Hey, don't unsub now, you won't get the ultra long term reward then!" and he'd say "Oh yea, I totally stay subbed now and play, although I wanted to start some of my not yet touched steam games instead and take a break."..

Totally.. NOT. In my opinion you're totally overestimating gear/rewards in terms of motivation to play a game.

You may think "I only log on, if it's beneficial regarding reward". I just think "I log on, if I want to heal/tank/dps a FF14 fight."

[Bourne_Endeavor]

You missed the point entirely. It's not about pretty mounts and/or vanity items. It's about rewarding a person's time investment so that they're more inclined to invest more of their time and continue playing.

When you work your butt off for something only to have it become near meaningless weeks later, you're not going to be very enthusiastic about going through that again. When you have less and less reason to invest your time, you have less and less of a reason to stay subbed.

There is a fine balance in a progression centric MMO between earned exclusivity and general accessibility. This game has a heavy skew towards accessibility and that design decision reverberates through the entirety of its content.

A time investment which requires no skill or actual effort and will inherently become easier over time even without better RNG. Would that same frustration not manifest if say, you had to clear Nidhogg EX 267 times before finally getting a Pigeon drop while I managed the exact same accomplishment in only 23? Because I can tell you right now if the reverse happened, well, a quote from FFIX sums up my opinion of the game nicely: "I'm sharpening my knife, kupo." I'd have put in only a tenth of the effort and walked away with the same reward. We are not talking about progression gear or achievements, but RNG. Like I said already, you are not going to convince someone bored of the game to stay because they got lucky one day. Sure, the initial euphoria may sate them for a bit, however it will wear off when they're now faced with yet again wondering what to do.

Content that necessitates skill, like raiding, I do think should remain relevant longer, and its rewards not so easily squished. But RNG isn't rewarding. It's just dumb luck.

[Tanathya]

From what I've seen here, and after what I feel after 3 months being out: is this game dying any time soon? No it's not; is this game doing well? No, definitely not.