DPSing as a healer

[mp-please]

since every content in this game is clearable without healer DPS - words of the devs.

Ok now this is getting out of hand, that line never applied to DF content AT ALL. When yoshida said that it was for coil and endgame raiding to determine the duration of the enrage timer.

Yes. Since all DPS jobs will be increasing up through level 60, it makes sense to have the white mage's DPS extend by a proportional amount as well. For development, such as with Bahamut's Coils, the development team assumes what the item level should be for general equipment on players when they clear a raid. They sum up the basic DPS for four DPS and tanks at that assumed item level and cut that by about 10-15% for the minimum clear DPS. Healer DPS is not taken into account when this is set.

People have been misusing this excuse for so long that people managed to completely distort it's purpose.

[Fevelle]

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So you're saying DF content needs healer DPS to be cleared?

[mp-please]

So you're saying DF content needs healer DPS to be cleared?

I'm saying that excuse doesn't apply to daily content, only to raids and when the minimum entry gear is met.
Pretty much what it means is, lets take nidex as example, as long party knows how to play, nobody dies, and party is on their absolute minimum ilvl(i220), party should be able to clear dps check and enrage check without both healers needing to touch their offensive spells at all.
Having at least one healer dpsing in these situations only makes the run faster and less tight in terms of time. Exactly the same how people run content faster as the party ilvl rises.

On to your question, both hall of novice and healer quests mention if healing isn't needed, dps. It doesn't matter if it needs or not as there's no dps checks at all in any of the daily content so the "Healer DPS is not taken into account" excuse doesn't apply.

[Fevelle]

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You can think whatever you want about how someone should play or not. What I'm discussing is the minimum requirement of duties, and not if something can be made faster or easier (because of course it can) and how some people kick players and label them as garbage from doing the minimum required. Are they doing enough to at least clear content within the timer limit? If yes, move on and leave them be. I hate that when these kicks come up my vote is always null because only 2 people can kick someone even if the fourth member disagrees with their reasons.

[mp-please]

What I'm discussing is the minimum requirement of duties

Minimum required for duties is at least 1 person auto attacking and someone healing if the person auto attacking can't self heal. As long they finish before the 90min timer is down there is absolutely no reason to not have tank and both dps have a picnic while a scholar book smacks his way through the mobs while the fairy heals him.

[FunkyBunch]

SNIP
. Are they doing enough to at least clear content within the timer limit? If yes, move on and leave them be. I hate that when these kicks come up my vote is always null because only 2 people can kick someone even if the fourth member disagrees with their reasons.

No, we don't leave them be, because this is a group game and they're causing problems by being terrible.
It's ONLY healers that make this excuse, that "we're clearing who cares if it takes 20 extra minutes LOL". If a DPS just auto-attacked (the equivalent of a healer just healing) you'd not be able to clear most content. If everyone played at the healer minimum, you'd never clear the first boss before the time ran out on the dungeon.

I just don't understand why ONLY healers think it's okay to be bad and everyone should lay off of them.

[Fevelle]

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A DPS playing at bare minimum is equal to doing just enough damage to clear the content within the timer. If he's doing it, I think you should leave him be too. I've had so many horrible runs in so many types of content (like Weeping City last week where every person in my party except for me had Brink of Death from raising) and I never felt like they needed to be kicked. You know who I think should be kicked? People who start teaching other's job without being asked to and/or harassing less skilled players.

EDIT: And no, I'm not a saint, of course I get pissed off by people dying to avoidable damage or not doing enough damage for the run to be fast and smooth, but kicking someone is a last resort for me. I don't feel I have the right to remove someone from a content just because I think they don't have enough skill.

[FunkyBunch]

People who start teaching other's job without being asked

I disagree here. I think if you know a better way to do something you should tell them but in a not being a jerk way. Otherwise how do they learn?
The other parts I agree with. Sort of. I won't kick someone just because they're terrible.
But that said, I think a DPS auto-attacking and not being able to clear the content is the same as a healer standing around doing nothing. You can't beat content in a reasonable amount of time if two people are doing the minimum. And that's the problem, you get a bad healer who thinks he's fine and a bad DPS who thinks he's fine and suddenly your clear time goes from 20 mins to over an hour if you can complete it at all.

Yes there are bad other classes, but it's the bad healers that are the most prevalent and most noticeable and the most stubborn. The amount of times I've given advice to bad BLM (100+, seriously I have the advice in a macro now) severely outnumbers the times I've given advice to a healer and I had EXACTLY ONE BLM not thank me for the suggestion and that one insisted on playing poorly (sleep, freeze etc on level 60 content).
I've seen advice given to maybe 20 healers and had every single one refuse to even listen. The nicest one said "If I feel comfortable I will try Cleric Stance" (he had all three healer classes and only healer classes to lvl 60) and then proceeded to not do anything the entire run as his faerie was able to heal the whole thing. That's not to say more healers didn't need advice, but when it was brought up it was never a good experience.

[mp-please]

You know who I think should be kicked? People who start teaching other's job without being asked to and/or harassing less skilled players.

Its up to the community to teach the community, that's why the mentor system exists even though it's a massive failure in the west because players are stubborn as hell and don't want to improve.

If you're at work and someone gets up to you and tells you to do x in y way so you do the task better are you going to reply with a "it's my salary i'll work the way i want" too?