DPSing as a healer

[Fevelle]

All this arguing...

Let me start saying that I'm a scrub and I don't do Savage so if you think my opnion is worthless because of this, don't bother to read.

I hate HAVING to DPS as a healer. I do DPS a lot though. My problem is when DPS becomes the rule and other players try to force it to players who don't want to DPS. The blame is not on the community, but in the game meta that is poorly designed, frcing high number of damage into classes supposed to have different meta than damage dealers. In the end, it all comes down to preference of the player, since every content in this game is clearable without healer DPS - words of the devs. It's ok, in a static, to want your healers to DPS as much as possible, you're a team striving to clear something with lower ilv than what's necessary and there are enrages and everything. But on DF content, you should just keep quiet and go with the flow.

[Taika]

I hate HAVING to DPS as a healer. My problem is when DPS becomes the rule and other players try to force it to players who don't want to DPS. In the end, it all comes down to preference of the player...

"I hate HAVING to SING SONGS as a bard. My problem is when singing songs becomes the rule and other players try to force it to players who don't want to sing songs. In the end, it all comes down to preference of the player..."

It's not a good argument to make to argue for people choosing to leave a part (a really important and powerful part) of their job toolkit unused, be it healer DPS, bard songs, tank DPS (they could choose to just stand there spamming flash all day or choose to not to use their defensive cooldowns, right) or DDs not using their damage increasing cooldowns. All jobs should utilise all of their available abilities to maximise their performance and to help their group as much as they can.

since every content in this game is clearable without healer DPS - words of the devs.

It doesn't matter if they have said it can be cleared without healer DPS in theory at some point of the gear progression, if the content can't be cleared without healer DPS when it has been released. Show me a group that is capable of clearing any new Savage content when it comes out without any healer DPS. You aren't likely to find one. And no, it's not because the best DDs in the world just aren't good enough and need to be helped by their healers, it's because of the DPS requirements really are too high to be beaten without healer DPS and / or higher item level gear. And that's how it's designed.

And even if it would be possible to clear the fights without healer DPS, that argument could just as well be used for not singing songs, tanks not doing DPS, DDs not using appropriate cooldowns and so on. Even if you can intentionally lower your performance and still beat the fight, doesn't mean you should do it, since you're hindering your whole party.

[mp-please]

since every content in this game is clearable without healer DPS - words of the devs.

Ok now this is getting out of hand, that line never applied to DF content AT ALL. When yoshida said that it was for coil and endgame raiding to determine the duration of the enrage timer.

Yes. Since all DPS jobs will be increasing up through level 60, it makes sense to have the white mage's DPS extend by a proportional amount as well. For development, such as with Bahamut's Coils, the development team assumes what the item level should be for general equipment on players when they clear a raid. They sum up the basic DPS for four DPS and tanks at that assumed item level and cut that by about 10-15% for the minimum clear DPS. Healer DPS is not taken into account when this is set.

People have been misusing this excuse for so long that people managed to completely distort it's purpose.

[Fevelle]

...

So you're saying DF content needs healer DPS to be cleared?

[mp-please]

So you're saying DF content needs healer DPS to be cleared?

I'm saying that excuse doesn't apply to daily content, only to raids and when the minimum entry gear is met.
Pretty much what it means is, lets take nidex as example, as long party knows how to play, nobody dies, and party is on their absolute minimum ilvl(i220), party should be able to clear dps check and enrage check without both healers needing to touch their offensive spells at all.
Having at least one healer dpsing in these situations only makes the run faster and less tight in terms of time. Exactly the same how people run content faster as the party ilvl rises.

On to your question, both hall of novice and healer quests mention if healing isn't needed, dps. It doesn't matter if it needs or not as there's no dps checks at all in any of the daily content so the "Healer DPS is not taken into account" excuse doesn't apply.

[Fevelle]

...

You can think whatever you want about how someone should play or not. What I'm discussing is the minimum requirement of duties, and not if something can be made faster or easier (because of course it can) and how some people kick players and label them as garbage from doing the minimum required. Are they doing enough to at least clear content within the timer limit? If yes, move on and leave them be. I hate that when these kicks come up my vote is always null because only 2 people can kick someone even if the fourth member disagrees with their reasons.

[mp-please]

What I'm discussing is the minimum requirement of duties

Minimum required for duties is at least 1 person auto attacking and someone healing if the person auto attacking can't self heal. As long they finish before the 90min timer is down there is absolutely no reason to not have tank and both dps have a picnic while a scholar book smacks his way through the mobs while the fairy heals him.

[FunkyBunch]

SNIP
. Are they doing enough to at least clear content within the timer limit? If yes, move on and leave them be. I hate that when these kicks come up my vote is always null because only 2 people can kick someone even if the fourth member disagrees with their reasons.

No, we don't leave them be, because this is a group game and they're causing problems by being terrible.
It's ONLY healers that make this excuse, that "we're clearing who cares if it takes 20 extra minutes LOL". If a DPS just auto-attacked (the equivalent of a healer just healing) you'd not be able to clear most content. If everyone played at the healer minimum, you'd never clear the first boss before the time ran out on the dungeon.

I just don't understand why ONLY healers think it's okay to be bad and everyone should lay off of them.

[Fevelle]

...

A DPS playing at bare minimum is equal to doing just enough damage to clear the content within the timer. If he's doing it, I think you should leave him be too. I've had so many horrible runs in so many types of content (like Weeping City last week where every person in my party except for me had Brink of Death from raising) and I never felt like they needed to be kicked. You know who I think should be kicked? People who start teaching other's job without being asked to and/or harassing less skilled players.

EDIT: And no, I'm not a saint, of course I get pissed off by people dying to avoidable damage or not doing enough damage for the run to be fast and smooth, but kicking someone is a last resort for me. I don't feel I have the right to remove someone from a content just because I think they don't have enough skill.