DPSing as a healer

[lulunami]

Uh, no, it doesn't. If we follow your line of argumentation, then not casting/attacking as much as possible would also not be required for DPS players and tanks, because it would be an optional "optimization", and not something that you'd expect as the very basis of adequate play. Healers do not get to stand around and claim it's an adequate way to play, because it's not.

You tend to straw man fallacy argument a lot bro. Nobody said those things but you.

[_slowpoke_]

You tend to straw man fallacy argument a lot bro. Nobody said those things but you.

It's not a straw man, it's the logical conclusion of your line of argumentation, please learn the difference. If you consider "always be casting" (i.e. casting offensive abilities when there's nothing to heal) an optimization for healers (and therefore implicitly optional), and not the basis of adequate play, you must either also argue that this should be the case for all other roles (at which point most people will rightly disagree with you), or you must show how healers are such special snowflakes that they get to stand around for extended amounts of time, and you have done neither.

[Tsumes]

It's not a straw man, it's the logical conclusion of your line of argumentation, please learn the difference. If you consider "always be casting" (i.e. casting offensive abilities when there's nothing to heal) an optimization for healers (and therefore implicitly optional), and not the basis of adequate play, you must either also argue that this should be the case for all other roles (at which point most people will rightly disagree with you), or you must show how healers are such special snowflakes that they get to stand around for extended amounts of time, and you have done neither.

I'm curious. What are you trying to achieve exactly? Is your aim to ultimately force every healer start DPSing? If so, you should probably stop wasting your time. If your goal is to prove a point. It's safe to say you've done it already. Regardless, I can't see anyone changing their mind or style of play based on someone else's opinion of how it should be done. I know I certainly won't, and from the looks of it, no one else who've disagreed with you will either. If you manage to get to end game on a healer, then how you do so is irrelevant. It's not a hardcore, or competition style game, you're not gaining anything by clearing a dungeon 20 minutes faster then the last guy. If your personal goal is to get through them as fast as possible. Then obviously using a random group composed by the system is not what you should be doing. Form your own. Simple.

TL : DR - Help me understand what your goal is.

[FunkyBunch]

I'm curious. What are you trying to achieve exactly? Is your aim to ultimately force every healer start DPSing? If so, you should probably stop wasting your time. If your goal is to prove a point. It's safe to say you've done it already. Regardless, I can't see anyone changing their mind or style of play based on someone else's opinion of how it should be done. I know I certainly won't, and from the looks of it, no one else who've disagreed with you will either. If you manage to get to end game on a healer, then how you do so is irrelevant. It's not a hardcore, or competition style game, you're not gaining anything by clearing a dungeon 20 minutes faster then the last guy. If your personal goal is to get through them as fast as possible. Then obviously using a random group composed by the system is not what you should be doing. Form your own. Simple.

TL : DR - Help me understand what your goal is.

The goal is for you to understand that you're playing suboptimally. You asked for evidence of how it makes a difference. I gave you a noticeable difference.
And yes 20 minutes extra in a dungeon, per dungeon per day is a lot of friggin' time.

The over-arching goal is to make healers aware they have an outsized impact on group clear times, and if they DPS, even moderately it can drastically decrease clear times.
There's no reason to have a single character doing nothing.
You aren't an end-game healer. There's no raid group in the world that would let you heal that way. We are trying to bridge that gap and get the terrible healers (0 DPS ones) to improve just a little bit so they're not a drag on the player base at large.

Just so you know, I help all classes when I'm paired with them in dungeons if I know a better way for them to do what they're doing. But it's healers, and only healers, that steadfastly refuse to listen to any advice ever. As evidenced by your arguments in this thread. Even when proven with numbers. (Though I did have one BLM who insisted on casting Sleep, Lethargy and Freeze in one dungeon and told me it was his subscription)

[Tsumes]

The goal is for you to understand that you're playing suboptimally.

This is where this line in the sand is I suppose. Some players such as yourself, play with the goal of being perfect or optimal. Others, such as myself who plays on console majority of the time does so for the enjoyment. Not to essentially gain anything from it. The reason I mentioned console is because most may not be aware. But console has vastly less available hot keys then PC does. PC I have roughly 20 skills hot keyed and ready to hit at a moments notice. On PS4 there are 8 available, that doesn't require pressing multiple buttons to gain access to extra hot keys. This is not the case on PC. PC is a single key stroke. Simple and quick.

FYI: I've been in a number of raid groups with the same FCs, and no one's complained about how I play. So your argument that every one at end-game is an elitist is false.

[FunkyBunch]

This is where this line in the sand is I suppose. Some players such as yourself, play with the goal of being perfect or optimal. Others, such as myself who plays on console majority of the time does so for the enjoyment. Not to essentially gain anything from it. The reason I mentioned console is because most may not be aware. But console has vastly less available hot keys then PC does. PC I have roughly 20 skills hot keyed and ready to hit at a moments notice. On PS4 there are 8 available, that doesn't require pressing multiple buttons to gain access to extra hot keys. This is not the case on PC. PC is a single key stroke. Simple and quick.

FYI: I've been in a number of raid groups with the same FCs, and no one's complained about how I play. So your argument that every one at end-game is an elitist is false.

I play on PS4. I know how it works. I don't play on PC, I don't even have a PC account. I have a DPS hot bar and a Heal Hot bar.
But thanks for trying.
And for the record your character isn't even high enough level to be in a raid group. Your highest level character is a 53 Arcanist/Scholar/Summoner.
We're talking Savage content here. Level 60. When you get there and try to get in a raid, it ain't gonna happen if you play like you do now. Everyone at end game isn't Elitist, but they won't tolerate purposely suboptimal play.
You'll notice there's not a single parse for all of Savage Content where BOTH healers have zero DPS. The main healer will have low DPS (~100) but never zero.

[Tsumes]

I play on PS4. I know how it works. I don't play on PC, I don't even have a PC account. I have a DPS hot bar and a Heal Hot bar.
But thanks for trying.
And for the record your character isn't even high enough level to be in a raid group. Your highest level character is a 53 Arcanist/Scholar/Summoner.
We're talking Savage content here. Level 60. When you get there and try to get in a raid, it ain't gonna happen if you play like you do now. Everyone at end game isn't Elitist, but they won't tolerate purposely suboptimal play.
You'll notice there's not a single parse for all of Savage Content where BOTH healers have zero DPS. The main healer will have low DPS (~100) but never zero.

Because of course. Everyone uses a 3rd party site to log stats so they can brag about being "optimal".
Contradicting yourself isn't exactly helping your case. Not that I really care. It's not me your trying to convince.

I'll just say you're right because you obviously need to hear it.

[Supersun]

T On PS4 there are 8 available, that doesn't require pressing multiple buttons to gain access to extra hot keys.

Err, I use a controller and you have access to 32 through just the use of the L2 and R2 triggers. You have 8 for L2, you have 8 for R2, you have 8 for L2+>R2, and you have 8 for R2+>L2, (and if you really needed it you could set up an L1 toggle for an additional L2 and R2 for an extra 16).

Are there any classes that need more than 32 to perform optimally?