DPSing as a healer

[Taika]

So to summarize, healing DPS make a big difference. Roughly 0.72 of an extra person.

Additionally, it's not at all unusual (unfortunately) for healers to out-DPS DDs in 4 person dungeons, 24 person content or trials. And even if the DDs in the group are really good, healer DPS is still really valuable for total group DPS.

[Tsumes]

One of those groups wiped, and took substantially more damage then the other. So of course one is going to be faster then the other one. Not convinced.

[Taika]

One of those groups wiped, and took substantially more damage then the other. So of course one is going to be faster then the other one. Not convinced.

Just check the logs for healer DPS numbers in various content and compare those to the DD and tank DPS numbers. Or just check the top DPS numbers for differerent content to see how much DPS a healer can pull there.

For example, the top AST does 1,713.5 DPS on Hummelfaust (the A5S miniboss) and is the 3rd highest DPS in that party (the AST is doing only 11.7 DPS less than the BRD who is the 2nd best DPS in the party ). And this is while their DDs are ranking 43-92%, so their DDs aren't bad either. There's no way to claim this isn't a significant contribution to party DPS.

[FunkyBunch]

One of those groups wiped, and took substantially more damage then the other. So of course one is going to be faster then the other one. Not convinced.

There's not enough data sets for AST.
However, that being said, I found a perfect example with WHM.
The WHM was the same in both runs, and the major difference between the two runs was that the WHM did better DPS. Also, only the shorter run had a death.

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/AVMYL...pe=damage-done
25:35 mins
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/rdfKt...pe=damage-done
22:44

The difference in group DPS was 308.5 and the WHM's sole difference was 380.1

The clear time was 13% slower when the WHM did less DPS and that was with the only major difference being a single WHM doing better DPS.
Now you can't tell me healer DPS doesn't make a difference. When it made a noticeable on the same friggin' healer.

[Judge_Xero]

@Funkybunch

So what you are saying is...that if I do 1300 DPS in a dungeon run instead of doing nothing that my clear time will be significantly quicker?

But why should I be concerned with the speed of a dungeon run while I'm AFK eating a sandwich while Eos heals?

Joking though but good job showing a valid example. That must have been a pain to sort through.

-----------------------------------

Here's one someone took of me and a friend helping a PF Group with their first clear (SCH/WHM). Good thing for that extra damage. 1250 DPS from the healers. Without that the party would have been 800 DPS short of a clear. ENRAGE!!!

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/KGWRT...pe=damage-done

And Hummel for funsies.

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/8kFJv...pe=damage-done

[FunkyBunch]

@Funkybunch

Joking though but good job showing a valid example. That must have been a pain to sort through.

Haha thanks.
I don't tend to shy away from a challenge
But dear god it was a pain considering that the players who tend to log are the best players in general, so trying to find enough sets of bad players to get a realistic comparison from was tough.
I wonder if it's a coincidence that all the Healers with minimum DPS also had more wipes and more deaths in general?

[lulunami]

Uh, no, it doesn't. If we follow your line of argumentation, then not casting/attacking as much as possible would also not be required for DPS players and tanks, because it would be an optional "optimization", and not something that you'd expect as the very basis of adequate play. Healers do not get to stand around and claim it's an adequate way to play, because it's not.

You tend to straw man fallacy argument a lot bro. Nobody said those things but you.

[_slowpoke_]

You tend to straw man fallacy argument a lot bro. Nobody said those things but you.

It's not a straw man, it's the logical conclusion of your line of argumentation, please learn the difference. If you consider "always be casting" (i.e. casting offensive abilities when there's nothing to heal) an optimization for healers (and therefore implicitly optional), and not the basis of adequate play, you must either also argue that this should be the case for all other roles (at which point most people will rightly disagree with you), or you must show how healers are such special snowflakes that they get to stand around for extended amounts of time, and you have done neither.

[Tsumes]

It's not a straw man, it's the logical conclusion of your line of argumentation, please learn the difference. If you consider "always be casting" (i.e. casting offensive abilities when there's nothing to heal) an optimization for healers (and therefore implicitly optional), and not the basis of adequate play, you must either also argue that this should be the case for all other roles (at which point most people will rightly disagree with you), or you must show how healers are such special snowflakes that they get to stand around for extended amounts of time, and you have done neither.

I'm curious. What are you trying to achieve exactly? Is your aim to ultimately force every healer start DPSing? If so, you should probably stop wasting your time. If your goal is to prove a point. It's safe to say you've done it already. Regardless, I can't see anyone changing their mind or style of play based on someone else's opinion of how it should be done. I know I certainly won't, and from the looks of it, no one else who've disagreed with you will either. If you manage to get to end game on a healer, then how you do so is irrelevant. It's not a hardcore, or competition style game, you're not gaining anything by clearing a dungeon 20 minutes faster then the last guy. If your personal goal is to get through them as fast as possible. Then obviously using a random group composed by the system is not what you should be doing. Form your own. Simple.

TL : DR - Help me understand what your goal is.

[FunkyBunch]

I'm curious. What are you trying to achieve exactly? Is your aim to ultimately force every healer start DPSing? If so, you should probably stop wasting your time. If your goal is to prove a point. It's safe to say you've done it already. Regardless, I can't see anyone changing their mind or style of play based on someone else's opinion of how it should be done. I know I certainly won't, and from the looks of it, no one else who've disagreed with you will either. If you manage to get to end game on a healer, then how you do so is irrelevant. It's not a hardcore, or competition style game, you're not gaining anything by clearing a dungeon 20 minutes faster then the last guy. If your personal goal is to get through them as fast as possible. Then obviously using a random group composed by the system is not what you should be doing. Form your own. Simple.

TL : DR - Help me understand what your goal is.

The goal is for you to understand that you're playing suboptimally. You asked for evidence of how it makes a difference. I gave you a noticeable difference.
And yes 20 minutes extra in a dungeon, per dungeon per day is a lot of friggin' time.

The over-arching goal is to make healers aware they have an outsized impact on group clear times, and if they DPS, even moderately it can drastically decrease clear times.
There's no reason to have a single character doing nothing.
You aren't an end-game healer. There's no raid group in the world that would let you heal that way. We are trying to bridge that gap and get the terrible healers (0 DPS ones) to improve just a little bit so they're not a drag on the player base at large.

Just so you know, I help all classes when I'm paired with them in dungeons if I know a better way for them to do what they're doing. But it's healers, and only healers, that steadfastly refuse to listen to any advice ever. As evidenced by your arguments in this thread. Even when proven with numbers. (Though I did have one BLM who insisted on casting Sleep, Lethargy and Freeze in one dungeon and told me it was his subscription)