DPSing as a healer

[Judge_Xero]

The healer DPS meta is just an optimization of play.

This pretty much summarizes every healer DPS thread. Is it required, no. Is it optimal, yes.

Then you can just make your choice from there as to what type of healer you are.

Optimal -> Yes/No?

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Although it appears that healer DPS is the only metric to dictate a skilled healer, you can rest assured that those healers are efficiently using all available tools and have a full understanding of their class in order to complete both tasks (as long as everyone is staying healthy). Which leaves you with an incredibly efficient healer when heavy actual healing is required.

[FunkyBunch]

Although it appears that healer DPS is the only metric to dictate a skilled healer, you can rest assured that those healers are efficiently using all available tools and have a full understanding of their class in order to complete both tasks (as long as everyone is staying healthy). Which leaves you with an incredibly efficient healer when heavy actual healing is required.

Exactly this. If you don't DPS you may as well be a bot. I got placed with a healer gold farm bot in Hull Breaker Isle HM for some reason and they kept us alive just fine.
No cleric, no talking, no dodging, barely survived the boss because they ate every AoE and didn't run for the pot chest when poisoned.
They didn't optimally heal, they just healed one person to full then the next then the next if multiple people were injured. And we still didn't die. With a bot. Be better than a bot.

[Alistaire]

Be better than a bot.

Pretty much the summary of the thread.

[_slowpoke_]

The healer DPS meta is just an optimization of play.

It's not "optimization of play" to do what is expected of every other job and role in the game, i.e. to not stand around doing nothing for half of every fight. You would very rightly call a DPS or tank that only casts a spell or uses an attack every 5 to 10 seconds bad, lazy, and disrespectful to the other players in the group. The same is true for healers, we're not special snowflakes who get a magical free pass at being lazy. Always be casting.

Optimization starts once you get into maximizing Cleric uptime, not when you do the basics of your job. Contributing to damage when you have nothing to do is common courtesy, because it's the only productive thing you can do when there's nothing to heal. If someone is new to healing and really uncomfortable with stance dancing, they can still cast damage spells outside of it until they become more comfortable - that's still better than twiddling their thumbs doing absolutely nothing.

[lulunami]

It's not "optimization of play" to do what is expected of every other job and role in the game,

Optimization starts once you get into maximizing Cleric uptime, not when you do the basics of your job.

My perspective of when optimization begins is just a little different than yours, although ultimately it leads to a similar destination.

Imagine going into a new encounter of Alexander A12 Savage without any prior available knowledge. Would your default instinct as a WHM to open up in Cleric Stance or be out of Cleric Stance? Would your co-healer be in Cleric Stance or out of Cleric Stance? How would you know that you or your co-healer made the correct choice?

Is it better to get healer DPS that early or be more conservative and let your group advance as far as possible? Everyone is probably going to be playing sub-optimally. Tanks will not have CD alignments mapped out perfectly. Healers do not know the damage patterns. DPS players are still learning CD timings and maintaining uptime. On top of that, people are going to fail mechanics, not to mention the execution errors.

The choice for a healer to switch to Cleric Stance is already an optimization decision. They know for X amount of GCDs, that damage-dealing is appropriate and safe. How far a player wants to damage deal before switching out of Cleric Stance is a personal judgement call. Some healers are better than others at straddling this line. You can take it further by having the healing partners coordinate damage output (i.e. Scholar omits Broil to heal while letting the WHM reapply Aero III/Aero II and spam Stone III).

Basically optimization begins with the foundation of mastering healing in the encounter.

[_slowpoke_]

My perspective of when optimization begins is just a little different than yours, although ultimately it leads to a similar destination.

Uh, no, it doesn't. If we follow your line of argumentation, then not casting/attacking as much as possible would also not be required for DPS players and tanks, because it would be an optional "optimization", and not something that you'd expect as the very basis of adequate play. Healers do not get to stand around and claim it's an adequate way to play, because it's not.

Would your default instinct as a WHM to open up in Cleric Stance or be out of Cleric Stance?

You always open in Cleric and precast Aero III (or II, in older content). Always. There is no encounter in this game that I have done or that I know of where you can't at least put up all your DoTs before you need to heal, and since your tank should always go into a fight with at the very least a Stoneskin, and Adlo, and - in most cases - a pre-pull Regen, you don't need to worry about damage on them for the first few GCDs anyway.

Would your co-healer be in Cleric Stance or out of Cleric Stance?

I obviously expect my co-healer to also start every fight in Cleric, for the same reasons. There is simply no excuse not to start a fight pre-casting something to land on pull in organized group play.

Is it better to get healer DPS that early or be more conservative and let your group advance as far as possible?

These are not mutually exclusive, and yes, it's important to start with healer DPS early, because it affects CD timings, MP and GCD planning, and is most valuable during progression. You're not doing yourself (or your group, for that matter) a favor if you eschew trying to DPS at all just because you're still learning a fight. Looking for DPS windows and testing them (if necessary, out of Cleric) should be as natural a part of progression as trying to figure out pre-cast timings, damage patterns, CD planning, proactive movement, utility coordination, etc, because all of this goes hand in hand.

[lulunami]

Uh, no, it doesn't. If we follow your line of argumentation, then not casting/attacking as much as possible would also not be required for DPS players and tanks, because it would be an optional "optimization", and not something that you'd expect as the very basis of adequate play. Healers do not get to stand around and claim it's an adequate way to play, because it's not.

You tend to straw man fallacy argument a lot bro. Nobody said those things but you.

[Judge_Xero]

@slowpoke.

Well to be fair, the evolution of the healer meta went in stages.

1. Keep everyone alive
2. Keep everyone alive without going out of MP
3. Keep everyone alive while DPSing
4. Keep everyone alive while DPSing and not going out of MP
5. Keep everyone alive without healing.

At least if you're in the 3/4 range you are at some level of optimization.

[mp-please]

@slowpoke.

Well to be fair, the evolution of the healer meta went in stages.

1. Keep everyone alive
2. Keep everyone alive without going out of MP
3. Keep everyone alive while DPSing
4. Keep everyone alive while DPSing and not going out of MP
5. Keep everyone alive without healing.

At least if you're in the 3/4 range you are at some level of optimization.

Pretty much.
Part of mp management is knowing when you need to let your hots tick, part of heal and mp management is maximizing your stats, rotation and optimization of ogcds.
For example for WHM on single target rotation, keeping dots up improves mp management by roughly +1min and half than simply spamming stone III. Same way that shroud needs to be popped during a server tick to avoid the loss +707mp, this can be easily seen by when hots tick.

[Zadocfish]

I don't get how people have a problem with DPSing as a healer... It's literally a choice between doing nothing and doing something constructive.