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  1. #41
    Player
    technole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,971
    Character
    Thea Sitori
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 72
    Quote Originally Posted by Llynd View Post
    No no and no. Whm do not Come from a dps class. It is supposed to be a pure healer. It is sch's role to dps, not Whm's one. You want whm/ast to get better dps ? Why not giving them a fairy ? Oh and a sacred soil ? Oh and whm needs a 147485930 potency shield. And sch needs a benediction. Seriously, you wanna kill the game ?
    It doesn't matter what class Scholar comes from, they won't be doing another hybrid class again, and because it was hard for them to buff Summoner without buffing Scholar before HW.

    Main-healer DPS is an advantage in some places end-game over Scholar. Whether it's A6S Mirages, or even Swindler adds because Scholar doesn't have a stun skill. Even back at Gordias Savage in A3S some groups had WHM do burst stone damage for the Equal Concentration hand DPS check, and the Scholar would solo heal the tanks. It was a pretty tight check at i200. Scholar has bane action so obviously they were the king of A2S DPS for-example.

    It's not my only opinion out there, but I personally believe it's a better raid healing combo when you get away from the main/off healer notion. Instead of the strictly a solo healer and a half-DPS healer, you can use both healers cooldowns and abilities to the raid's advantage for examples like the above.
    (3)

  2. #42
    Player
    _slowpoke_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    211
    Character
    Yayadon Yadon
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by technole View Post
    A8S is more viable with WHM/AST than before
    Yes, because of overgear, mostly, we're in the catch-up patch after all. There is exactly one N.AST on FFLogs who cleared A8s before 3.3, and exactly one more who actually cleared it on N.AST first. All other of the grand total of 6 N.ASTs on FFLogs (last time I checked) who killed A8s did it on other jobs (mostly SCH) first, and did one or two kills on N.AST for funnsies. The numbers speak for themselves: N.AST is still not really viable for progression endgame raiding, and probably never will be, because the entire aspect of the job has no direction, no internal synergy, horrible DPS potential, and neither the utility of a SCH nor the consistency of a WHM.
    (4)
    Quote Originally Posted by Leveva Heavensreader
    A realm where one must apologize for being a victim is no realm worth living in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hall of Novices, on Healer DPS

  3. #43
    Player
    technole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,971
    Character
    Thea Sitori
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 72
    If you are going to quote me and nitpick a sentence, you should include the context on why I said such. "Better-than-Succor" shields implies post-3.3 buff, which is still something rather noteworthy. Adlo Spread isn't required to survive any mechanic in the game. I even mentioned the WHM/AST comp isn't even optimal.

    Regardless of one's feelings on N.AST, the fact yoship has a desire to continue improving the job to allow it sit in the currently occupied SCH seat isn't something to ignore though. It's not in a very good place at the moment, competitively with what Scholar offers especially with under geared progression.
    (1)
    Last edited by technole; 07-18-2016 at 09:32 PM.

  4. #44
    Player
    _slowpoke_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    211
    Character
    Yayadon Yadon
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by technole View Post
    You know if you are going to quote me and nitpick a sentence, you should include the context on why I said such. "Better-than-Succor" shields implies post-3.3 buff, Not to mention I mentioned the WHM/AST comp isn't even optimal.
    What I was trying to say is that it's less the buffs (which of course also played a role) than more the fact that we have readily available i230+ gear available now. I doubt very much that a lot of N.ASTs would've been able to clear A8s before 3.3 even if they would have had the buffs.

    Regardless of one's feelings on N.AST, the fact yoship has a desire to continue improving the job to allow it sit in the currently occupied SCH seat isn't something to ignore though.
    Don't get me wrong, I would like to see N.AST actually be viable, but this would require the devs to admit that N.AST has a fundamental design problem, and not just a few issues that can be fixed with a buff here and there. They have to step back and rethink the entire aspect of the job, because it won't ever work properly no matter how many buffs they throw at it.
    (1)
    Quote Originally Posted by Leveva Heavensreader
    A realm where one must apologize for being a victim is no realm worth living in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hall of Novices, on Healer DPS

  5. #45
    Player
    Teraluna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    662
    Character
    Tera Luna
    World
    Louisoix
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by _slowpoke_ View Post
    Yes, because of overgear, mostly, we're in the catch-up patch after all. There is exactly one N.AST on FFLogs who cleared A8s before 3.3, and exactly one more who actually cleared it on N.AST first. All other of the grand total of 6 N.ASTs on FFLogs (last time I checked) who killed A8s did it on other jobs (mostly SCH) first, and did one or two kills on N.AST for funnsies. The numbers speak for themselves: N.AST is still not really viable for progression endgame raiding, and probably never will be, because the entire aspect of the job has no direction, no internal synergy, horrible DPS potential, and neither the utility of a SCH nor the consistency of a WHM.
    I tend to agree with the latter part of this.
    Having mained healers, I'm left underwhelmed by the Astro.

    For me it needs more exclusivity, more stand out abilities that would give the class that bit of envy from whm and sch.
    Envy? - yes. Skills that you'd look at and think, wow I wish my other healing classes had that.
    But there aren't any really. The whm and scholar have been handling content quite nicely thank you with their current abilities list.
    So much so that SE decided merely to lift several of these abilities directly across, then add some minor extras and padded out slot fillers.

    If I have been playing a whm for ages why would I switch to Astro? For the differences? There aren't enough to detatch it from feeling like I'm still playing the whm but with less overall utility.

    I wish SE would spend some time on reworking the Astro to give it real differentiation, even to the point of making the N.Ast totally different rather than just a slightly altered version.
    (2)
    Last edited by Teraluna; 07-18-2016 at 10:06 PM.

  6. #46
    Player
    seekified's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    896
    Character
    Karis Angara
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 80
    Ever since AST was announced, I've been saying that I wanted it to be a healing zone-type job. Think Healing Wind and the like from the Tales series. Without a target you'd place it like you would a Shadow Flare, or with a target it'd end up right under that target. Various durations and widths depending on the ability and cooldowns used. Typically a short, powerful burst HoT effect before the circle vanishes. They could also have LoS healing tethers with a nicely animated beam for burst healing moments.

    Yes, potentially awkward but also much more engaging. If you got the positioning right they'd be very powerful heals, and for group heals you could either have separate abilities or an "expand" cooldown that makes all existing circles larger or makes your next cast 25y in diameter.

    I dunno, just tossing it out there. But right now AST is just this weird thing inbetween the established healers. Maybe this is something they could use for the next healing class. I'd certainly like to try to master it.
    (0)

  7. #47
    Player
    Vexander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Sharlyan
    Posts
    1,290
    Character
    Rin Black
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 90
    Can we make Stone Skin II a cross-job ability?
    (0)

  8. #48
    Player
    Nekotee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Uldah
    Posts
    1,574
    Character
    Akihiko Hoshie
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Vexander View Post
    Can we make Stone Skin II a cross-job ability?
    Definitly NO
    It's useless XD
    (1)

  9. #49
    Player
    Vexander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Sharlyan
    Posts
    1,290
    Character
    Rin Black
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Nekotee View Post
    Definitly NO
    It's useless XD
    I always toss it up before a pull. I don't consider it useless at all. It'll fall off the tank in a second or two, but for the DPS, it's a little buffer if they mess up dodging an AOE.

    Also, I'm curious. If MND affected Healer DPS spells like INT would (similar to the tank change with VIT causing damage to go up to remove STR tanks), and Cleric Stance gave an Accuracy boost rather than swapping MND and INT, would that be OP or not? With Cleric Stance lowering healing potency by like, 50% or something (I'm not a number cruncher, 50% might be too much or too little, it's just an example).
    (0)
    Last edited by Vexander; 07-19-2016 at 01:03 AM.

  10. #50
    Player
    Rawrz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,704
    Character
    Sir Rawrz
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Vexander View Post
    I always toss it up before a pull. I don't consider it useless at all. It'll fall off the tank in a second or two, but for the DPS, it's a little buffer if they mess up dodging an AOE.

    Also, I'm curious. If MND affected Healer DPS spells like INT would (similar to the tank change with VIT causing damage to go up to remove STR tanks), and Cleric Stance gave an Accuracy boost rather than swapping MND and INT, would that be OP or not? With Cleric Stance lowering healing potency by like, 50% or something (I'm not a number cruncher, 50% might be too much or too little, it's just an example).
    He means that using Stoneskin II out of battle would be a waste to cross class, since you can just stoneskin each party member and not wait a 30 second penalty to switch back. (Unless you did the swap with CS, but it would still be obnoxious.)

    Yes I think it would be OP. Cleric stance has a 5 second lock out to punish you for DPSing, when you couldn't. I think its brilliant the way it is.
    (1)

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