3.4 Healer Rebalancing Thread

**M0xie** · 07-16-2016 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by Llynd

Yeah ast needs an Emergency aoe heal cd.

I think Lightspeed is a good trade-off for Assize/Indom, even with the GCD.

Originally Posted by gumas

Maybe improving the AST card system? It is their icon afterall.

The cards system is my favorite part of AST. I think that reducing the CD on Spread was the best thing ever - it compensates for the 30 seconds CD on Draw. I really don't find myself trying/wanting to Draw when it's not up like I did before when Spread would still be on cooldown.

I have/do play all three healers a lot, what I really would like is more DPS options for WHM and AST. On SCH, between all the dots and Broil, controlling the fairy (please learn to do this if you don't!), CDs and heals, there's always something to do. On AST, the cards do give me some extra "stuff" to do but I still spend way too much time with Gravity or Malefic spam, and WHM is always either just Holy or Stone spam.

Healing-wise, I don't ever think any of the 3 is better because I rely on the strengths of each to do the job whichever one I use. Since I'm comfortable healing with any of them, and I enjoy how they all heal/mitigate differently, it's filling the time with DPS that I personally want enhanced but I could be the only one here.

**Rawrz** · 07-16-2016 08:02 AM

Improvement to Time Dilation and Celestial Opposition in NOCTURNAL only, is the sole buff I'd give AST.

WHM should get a trait amended to Cleric Stance to finally give them some base accuracy to stack with, while having to gear towards the main healer slot (this allows for more piety melds over accuracy.) Why should WHM get this buff and not AST? None of a WHM's tool kit can 100% not miss. They also originated the skill, so something extra should be expected for them.

In general, the healers are balanced, as healers. As DPS, I feel AST is weaker during AOE, but on Single target, they hit fine. They could give Nocturnal Celestial Opposition something for this, but its certainly not killing off AST worth, since a Balance/Arrow/Spire/Ewer on a AOE DPS is their own AOE contribution.

**Llynd** · 07-17-2016 07:45 PM

No no and no. Whm do not Come from a dps class. It is supposed to be a pure healer. It is sch's role to dps, not Whm's one. You want whm/ast to get better dps ? Why not giving them a fairy ? Oh and a sacred soil ? Oh and whm needs a 147485930 potency shield. And sch needs a benediction. Seriously, you wanna kill the game ?

**Valknut** · 07-18-2016 12:37 AM

This SCH is a special snow flake stuff has gotta end.

You are not a DPS job, you are a healer. If you want to DPS go SMN, if you want to have OP healing an OP dmg then you need to have a some major downsides. SCH has none as of now, it has the best shields, the best over time healing, the best mana management, the best GCD usage, Insta AOE healing, the best OGCD single target heal with the best CD and can be used 3 times back to back.

So AST an WHM Only get to have high CD big heals in compensation... What the literal f***.

**Rawrz** · 07-18-2016 03:19 AM

Originally Posted by Valknut

This SCH is a special snow flake stuff has gotta end.

You are not a DPS job, you are a healer. If you want to DPS go SMN, if you want to have OP healing an OP dmg then you need to have a some major downsides. SCH has none as of now, it has the best shields, the best over time healing, the best mana management, the best GCD usage, Insta AOE healing, the best OGCD single target heal with the best CD and can be used 3 times back to back.

So AST an WHM Only get to have high CD big heals in compensation... What the literal f***.

I never said that other healers shouldn't be able to dps. I love our WHM who aggressively puts up her dots and stone IIIs. It really keeps me watching, not only the tanks, but her as well for Cleric Stance/DPS casts. When the boss gets to about 8% we swap and use her burst to help get the kill faster. That is a WHMs strength. The other healers can dps just fine.

What are SCH weak at (aside from 15 second burst Windows?) Sustained AOE heals. Indom, deployment, and Emergency tactics helped to curb the issue. We do not have the raw healing power of medica II/medica/cure III spam of whm or asts raw helios/aspected. We have to go through a bunch of cds to make our aoe healing work.

Also, AST brings their dps to the party via cards. To even ask to nerf SCH would place AST right on top. Absolutely free and noticeable dps buffs, every time they draw a card, at no cost of mp, nor a limitation on their toolkit.

**Valknut** · 07-18-2016 06:01 AM

Originally Posted by Rawrz

Snip.

Broil has 170 potency, Stone III has 210. That is not a strength at all. Save yourself the trouble of the switch. This is not a weakness.

SCH can solo heal Nidhogg ex just like every other healer. In what way are they lacking AoE healing? I cannot think of an instance where spamming Sucor is any less viable then spamming Helios/Medica on BJ the shields get used an your heals an new shields come out. Just like Ack morhn on Nid ex.

Cards are not all DPS increases. Ewer is useless in 99% of situations. No one else in the game has mana issues like AST/WHM so it either goes on your self or turns into an expanded card, Spear worthless in 99% of situations, Balance and arrow are amazing, but getting off 3+ Aoe DPS cards in one fight? pretty unlikely. SO while AST banks on RNG your sch is guaranteed his standard DPS

AST/WHM are like PLD. Why bring them if you can bring SCH?

**technole** · 07-18-2016 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by Llynd

No no and no. Whm do not Come from a dps class. It is supposed to be a pure healer. It is sch's role to dps, not Whm's one. You want whm/ast to get better dps ? Why not giving them a fairy ? Oh and a sacred soil ? Oh and whm needs a 147485930 potency shield. And sch needs a benediction. Seriously, you wanna kill the game ?

It doesn't matter what class Scholar comes from, they won't be doing another hybrid class again, and because it was hard for them to buff Summoner without buffing Scholar before HW.

Main-healer DPS is an advantage in some places end-game over Scholar. Whether it's A6S Mirages, or even Swindler adds because Scholar doesn't have a stun skill. Even back at Gordias Savage in A3S some groups had WHM do burst stone damage for the Equal Concentration hand DPS check, and the Scholar would solo heal the tanks. It was a pretty tight check at i200. Scholar has bane action so obviously they were the king of A2S DPS for-example.

It's not my only opinion out there, but I personally believe it's a better raid healing combo when you get away from the main/off healer notion. Instead of the strictly a solo healer and a half-DPS healer, you can use both healers cooldowns and abilities to the raid's advantage for examples like the above.

**Kaizencorr** · 07-18-2016 04:00 AM

I think the issue is with the design of two healers for 8 man content. Having an "off healer" makes it impossible to balance THREE healers. We don't need to make SCH weaker or the other two stronger, we out right need another healer. SCH isn't the best off healer, it's the only real off healer.

Jobs have issues of course. But healer is probably the only ROLE that is having an issue right now. So either adjust the role by adjusting the content or add another job to balance the roles.

If Yoshi P does indeed want AST to fit in the support slot, it would take way more resources than I think he is willing to utilize.

On mobile otherwise this would be a dissertation. These are merely bullet points.

**_slowpoke_** · 07-18-2016 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by technole

A8S is more viable with WHM/AST than before

Yes, because of overgear, mostly, we're in the catch-up patch after all. There is exactly one N.AST on FFLogs who cleared A8s before 3.3, and exactly one more who actually cleared it on N.AST first. All other of the grand total of 6 N.ASTs on FFLogs (last time I checked) who killed A8s did it on other jobs (mostly SCH) first, and did one or two kills on N.AST for funnsies. The numbers speak for themselves: N.AST is still not really viable for progression endgame raiding, and probably never will be, because the entire aspect of the job has no direction, no internal synergy, horrible DPS potential, and neither the utility of a SCH nor the consistency of a WHM.

**Teraluna** · 07-18-2016 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by _slowpoke_

Yes, because of overgear, mostly, we're in the catch-up patch after all. There is exactly one N.AST on FFLogs who cleared A8s before 3.3, and exactly one more who actually cleared it on N.AST first. All other of the grand total of 6 N.ASTs on FFLogs (last time I checked) who killed A8s did it on other jobs (mostly SCH) first, and did one or two kills on N.AST for funnsies. The numbers speak for themselves: N.AST is still not really viable for progression endgame raiding, and probably never will be, because the entire aspect of the job has no direction, no internal synergy, horrible DPS potential, and neither the utility of a SCH nor the consistency of a WHM.

I tend to agree with the latter part of this.
Having mained healers, I'm left underwhelmed by the Astro.

For me it needs more exclusivity, more stand out abilities that would give the class that bit of envy from whm and sch.
Envy? - yes. Skills that you'd look at and think, wow I wish my other healing classes had that.
But there aren't any really. The whm and scholar have been handling content quite nicely thank you with their current abilities list.
So much so that SE decided merely to lift several of these abilities directly across, then add some minor extras and padded out slot fillers.

If I have been playing a whm for ages why would I switch to Astro? For the differences? There aren't enough to detatch it from feeling like I'm still playing the whm but with less overall utility.

I wish SE would spend some time on reworking the Astro to give it real differentiation, even to the point of making the N.Ast totally different rather than just a slightly altered version.

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