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  1. #1
    Player
    Donjo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    980
    Character
    A'lyhhia Tahz
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilan View Post
    Sure thing. Thats why my PLD has more defensive CD's with 57 than my WAR and my DRK with 60.
    Hmmm... I'll count them real quick. Cross Class Cooldowns will be bolded.

    PLD: Rampart, Convalescence, Awareness, Sentinel, Foresight, Sheltron, Bulwark

    WAR: Foresight, Awareness, Convalescense, Thrill of Battle, Vengeance, Raw Intuition, Inner Beast

    DRK: Shadowskin, Foresight, Awareness, Convalescense, Shadow Wall, Dark Dance, Dark Mind

    Looks like each job has access to seven. Eight if you wish to count Bloodbath. Figure we probably could if we're counting Convalescence.
    (3)

  2. #2
    Player
    Alistaire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    2,980
    Character
    Your Character
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Blue Mage Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Donjo View Post
    Hmmm... I'll count them real quick. Cross Class Cooldowns will be bolded.

    PLD: Rampart, Convalescence, Awareness, Sentinel, Foresight, Sheltron, Bulwark

    WAR: Foresight, Awareness, Convalescense, Thrill of Battle, Vengeance, Raw Intuition, Inner Beast

    DRK: Shadowskin, Foresight, Awareness, Convalescense, Shadow Wall, Dark Dance, Dark Mind

    Looks like each job has access to seven. Eight if you wish to count Bloodbath. Figure we probably could if we're counting Convalescence.
    And each has a different value based on potency, recast, and to a more vague extent, dependability of use when needed.

    When you add them all up (not including any vague values) WAR > PLD. Didn't see DRK in those calculations so idk where they factor in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seku View Post
    1. Never stated Flash killed anything nor anything about flash getting a damage buff, no idea where you got that from.
    He's referring to my suggestion that the easy fix is to add damage to flash, thinking it's not good because FoF wouldn't affect it. (Which isn't a good argument; either they'd change FoF to include it or even if they didn't the change would still be a much-needed boost to PLD)
    (0)
    Last edited by Alistaire; 07-01-2016 at 01:24 PM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Donjo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    980
    Character
    A'lyhhia Tahz
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistaire View Post
    And each has a different value based on potency, recast, and to a more vague extent, dependability of use when needed.

    When you add them all up (not including any vague values) WAR > PLD. Didn't see DRK in those calculations so idk where they factor in.
    Woah, meow. I was just counting the number of cooldowns! But yeah, WAR wins. Too bad everybody wants them on the boss' ass :P
    (1)

  4. #4
    Player
    Malicewolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    475
    Character
    Fohl Hakuko
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Donjo View Post
    Woah, meow. I was just counting the number of cooldowns! But yeah, WAR wins. Too bad everybody wants them on the boss' ass :P
    But all dem deepss! (and let's not forget to mention that a WAR's hp completely overshadows any other tank with defiance on)
    (0)
    Don't worry. I'll spam cure the crap out of you with my Paladin.

    #GetSelliBack2016
    #IsSelliBackYet?2017
    #IfSelliIsntBackIQuit2018
    #IfSelliIsntBackIQuitForReal2019
    #TheYearTrumpWontGetRelected2020

  5. #5
    Player
    Ragology's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    596
    Character
    Brown Sugar
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 62
    Quote Originally Posted by Malicewolf View Post
    But all dem deepss! (and let's not forget to mention that a WAR's hp completely overshadows any other tank with defiance on)
    All 3 tanks die in the same number of hits while in tank stance though.
    (5)

  6. #6
    Player
    Ilan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    3,057
    Character
    Kurumii Tokisakii
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Donjo View Post
    Hmmm... I'll count them real quick. Cross Class Cooldowns will be bolded.

    PLD: Rampart, Convalescence, Awareness, Sentinel, Foresight, Sheltron, Bulwark

    WAR: Foresight, Awareness, Convalescense, Thrill of Battle, Vengeance, Raw Intuition, Inner Beast

    DRK: Shadowskin, Foresight, Awareness, Convalescense, Shadow Wall, Dark Dance, Dark Mind

    Looks like each job has access to seven. Eight if you wish to count Bloodbath. Figure we probably could if we're counting Convalescence.
    I see, you don't count Divine Veil in it even if it is a defensive cooldown (if you don't know how to use it right learn it) and Cover isn't a defensive cooldown (even if it is not for your defense) either not to mention that Clemency is a defensiv skill too if you know how to use it right and in combination with Divine Veil.

    If you ignore 3 useful skills for you and your party you are totaly right and you obviously don't know how to play your paladin.
    (1)
    Quote Originally Posted by Canadane View Post
    Good talk, all. Glad we had it.
    暗闇の力#7805

  7. #7
    Player
    Seku's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    583
    Character
    Seku Halvone
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilan View Post
    I see, you don't count Divine Veil in it even if it is a defensive cooldown (if you don't know how to use it right learn it) and Cover isn't a defensive cooldown (even if it is not for your defense) either not to mention that Clemency is a defensiv skill too if you know how to use it right and in combination with Divine Veil.

    If you ignore 3 useful skills for you and your party you are totaly right and you obviously don't know how to play your paladin.
    Because their not defensive cool downs and are the utility of the PLD. Also Clemency is trash until it doesn't kill the combo rotation you're in and shield blocks prevent casting interruption or the spell is made into an instant cast. Until then you're more than likely over healing in any decent group and killing your DPS, or taking the chance you're slightly off on your timing, eat a tank buster to the face get interrupted and yet again, killed your DPS.
    (4)
    Last edited by Seku; 07-05-2016 at 11:43 AM.

  8. #8
    Player
    Kitfox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,113
    Character
    Lynn Nuvestrahl
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilan View Post
    I see, you don't count Divine Veil in it even if it is a defensive cooldown (if you don't know how to use it right learn it) and Cover isn't a defensive cooldown (even if it is not for your defense)...
    DV does nothing for PLD's own mitigation. It's raid utility, like Path, or Reprisal although generally worse.

    Cover does nothing for mitigation besides redirect. It's at best a hate control tool, not mitigation.
    (4)

  9. #9
    Player
    Warkupo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    90
    Character
    Akos Talon
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitfox View Post
    DV does nothing for PLD's own mitigation. It's raid utility, like Path, or Reprisal although generally worse.

    Cover does nothing for mitigation besides redirect. It's at best a hate control tool, not mitigation.
    In a fight where the PLD isn't expecting to tank swap you can buff up, cover the tank, and mitigate damage that he wouldn't normally be mitigating. Or if he's about to die and your healers are struggling/bad you can cover and buy extra time with your shiny body. PLD tends to excel in situations where poop is in the fan or your group just isnt' very coherent or practiced.
    (0)

  10. #10
    Player
    Fernosaur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    711
    Character
    Hazel Korhonen
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilan View Post
    If you ignore 3 useful skills for you and your party you are totaly right and you obviously don't know how to play your paladin.
    ...By that measure, WAR has Storm's Eye, and DRK has Delirium and Reprisal... those serve a similar role to Divine Veil (as does Rage of Halone), except they actually also apply to the tanks that use them, unlike Divine Veil. And they can have a 100% uptime if needed. Delirium is also a lot better than RoH in the party mitigation department because most of the raid-wide attacks are based on INT.

    Paladin does have Stoneskin, though. I don't know if you'd count that into your defensive CDs, because as someone said earlier, casting makes you unable to block or parry, and then you can get interrupted, and then it sucks. Though then again, if you're interrupted by a TB while casting Stoneskin you were already too late in casting stoneskin for it to matter, so~
    (2)