I guess it's time

[Phireblast]

Since we're still talking about the formula, I need second opinions on what this article says:

"On the subject of getting new content on odd-numbered patches and battle content such as the Alexander raids on the even-numbered patches, Yoshida said that content such as item level upgrades and the timing of high-difficulty raids won’t change its flow, but they will continue adding more content, such as casual content on the even-numbered patches, so there will always be something for everyone. "

Did Yoshi P straight up say 4.0's formula will be the same as 2.0...and 3.0's? Or is he still talking about 3.0 only? Link to article here:

http://www.siliconera.com/2016/06/24...8Siliconera%29

reposting for visibility since i question my reading comprehension at times

[FallenArisen0990]

Except they already use all 3 elements without the need of an elemental wheel. Skipping out entirely on thunder is a dps loss thorugh the form of DoT and procs, and both fire and blizzard have their place in the flow of a BLM's gameplay, except now you're only nessitating the use of certain elements in certain fights, creating the aforementioned button bloats when skills serve no purpose otherwise.

And as I mentioned before, if you're giving the healers all the same elements, then what's even the the point to begin with if they're all having the same damage bonus perks? It just seems like adding things for the sake of adding it. There's a reason why things should be introduced for that point alone, especially if their concern is the development constraint.

Completely missed the point on what I said. The Element Wheel thing I was talkin about was to allow BLM to switch around their Effects, Thunder would now MP Regen and Fire would become the Thunder Proc and Blizzard would be the main source of DMG. How would that add anymore Button bloat if it's the same thing of a different element, over my Original idea? As of right now healers are basically all the same. There's literally no point to add anymore more Tanks and Healers if they aren't gonna try something different. Plus the answer to the Button Bloat would be a limited form of the gambit system. That why the game autos on what you want to activate you can focus on your main button uses.

What irony?

The irony is that how restrictive the game and designs are. What my problem is that many enjoy having the Dev Team just reuse old assets and the same old nonsense in a different environment. That's not being creative or innovating.... It's just being lazy. Do people not see how all the problems that were mention in this thread, will happen sooner or later? People talk about this game losing it's identity, but little do they know, this game lost it's identity a long time ago. The game needs game changing ideas, not just reskin content.

[Iromi]

The irony is that how restrictive the game and designs are. What my problem is that many enjoy having the Dev Team just reuse old assets and the same old nonsense in a different environment. That's not being creative or innovating.... It's just being lazy. Do people not see how all the problems that were mention in this thread, will happen sooner or later? People talk about this game losing it's identity, but little do they know, this game lost it's identity a long time ago. The game needs game changing ideas, not just reskin content.

Completely agree. I just cannot take playing the same reskinned stuff anymore, I feel like a brain dead ape playing..lol and mostly likely will join my friends who quit years ago in 2.3...; ;

and since people are so adamant to defend the boring tome stones, same formula since 2.0..and wanting innovative stuff is so horrible and blasphemous to ask, there is no point in staying subbed. I'll always keep watching and checking to see if they change things up..but if not, I think its time for my buddies and I to all unsub.

People can stay with the same boring formula for years to come! yayyyy >.>

[Mimilu]

reposting for visibility since i question my reading comprehension at times

The only thing about the formula I can get from that article is that they will add casual content, even on even-numbered patches, so everyone can have something to do, and that 3.5 is going to be similar to 2.5 and 2.55. :B

[RiceisNice]

Completely missed the point on what I said. The Element Wheel thing I was talkin about was to allow BLM to switch around their Effects, Thunder would now MP Regen and Fire would become the Thunder Proc and Blizzard would be the main source of DMG. How would that add anymore Button bloat if it's the same thing of a different element, over my Original idea? As of right now healers are basically all the same. There's literally no point to add anymore more Tanks and Healers if they aren't gonna try something different. Plus the answer to the Button Bloat would be a limited form of the gambit system. That why the game autos on what you want to activate you can focus on your main button uses. .

But then what is the point of this other than to add unnecessary fluff? This just seems like a cosmetic thing now and ultimately, would still have no interaction with the aforementioned elemental wheel. I'm up for more cosmetic presentation to existing jobs, but that's a different discussion altogether.

The irony is that how restrictive the game and designs are. What my problem is that many enjoy having the Dev Team just reuse old assets and the same old nonsense in a different environment. That's not being creative or innovating.... It's just being lazy. Do people not see how all the problems that were mention in this thread, will happen sooner or later? People talk about this game losing it's identity, but little do they know, this game lost it's identity a long time ago. The game needs game changing ideas, not just reskin content.

Having something like an elemental wheel does create a restrictive game design in the form of imbalance and optimization. Hell, WoW had it for vanilla, but for two patch ycles the entire end game was centered around fire elementals and black dragons...both of which are immune to fire spells (which happens to be an entire talent tree for a mage). There was also a particular boss fight that required frost attacks, at the time only mages and shamans had access to. The raids were 40 man so you were sure to have a mage, but a roster of 40 players came ith it's own issues. An elemental wheel in an MMO is not very innovative and at best creates imbalance in optimization, or serve to do nothing at all in actual gameplay. I feel like you're applying the context to the wrong person. You don't want a fight to start being favorable/unfavorable for BLMs because of the elemental wheel gimmick that's inherent to the boss or a fight design.

Completely agree. I just cannot take playing the same reskinned stuff anymore, I feel like a brain dead ape playing..lol and mostly likely will join my friends who quit years ago in 2.3...; ;

Something like Fallen's transpose idea is exactly what it is, it's just reskinning spells and wouldn't add depth to the gameplay.

[Velhart]

The irony is that how restrictive the game and designs are. What my problem is that many enjoy having the Dev Team just reuse old assets and the same old nonsense in a different environment. That's not being creative or innovating.... It's just being lazy. Do people not see how all the problems that were mention in this thread, will happen sooner or later? People talk about this game losing it's identity, but little do they know, this game lost it's identity a long time ago. The game needs game changing ideas, not just reskin content.

Would it be crazy if I said that the overall stat formulas and roles are simplified to an extent so the developers can focus on engaging with bosses with unique mechanics? As someone stated in here from Yoshi-P, having the ideas you claim would make better would actually make it even worse and more restricting. Not only that, how are you going to balance all other jobs in the game? Are you going to give DRG elemental stances so he does not get shafted out a party? Element wheels in MMO's are really some of the most needlessly pointless and restrictive form of gameplay you can do. Like someone said, I like that BLM has spells that do certain functions and not what elemental affiliation it is.

I will say it again. Depth lies in the content, not how many functions or buttons you can put on your character. The way it is set up is clean with a proper learning curve, and only really skilled players can take the system to it's full potential. Basically easy to learn, hard to master.

I think I posted this video once, but what the hell? I will do it again. Pretty good example of making things complicated for the hell of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1Pn-PvhY_0

[FallenArisen0990]

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I just used BLM as an example and that's WoW's fault for that oversight. Here in XIV, everyone has more than one element. It creates strategy rather than oh "He's jumping, let's stack guys for Shields and Heals." "Oh look, purple icon, run to here to place meteor." Giving me a fight with so many mechanics is not my idea of fun, it's just annoyance and delaying the fight. It's impossible to think about everyone without hurting the game. That little man is gonna have to get left behind sooner or later if he doesn't want to do his part. Everything is this game is cosmetic because it all deals the same non-elemental damage - .-; I'm not saying they should go crazy with the Elements, just to add a few. Something different then just reusing the same mechanics in a different rotation of a fight.

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Even if DRG had Fire one of it WS, how would that hurt the Job? Boss is resistance to Fire. Oh look, the DMG from said WS only lost 20% in power. I think they would be fine.

[Velhart]

Even if DRG had Fire one of it WS, how would that hurt the Job? Boss is resistance to Fire. Oh look, the DMG from said WS only lost 20% in power. I think they would be fine.

Then it would completely change the DRG's rotation when DPS already have to adjust rotations based on how raid boss mechanics work. Fixing rotations within rotations. That is called being needlessly complex. Its not depth, its annoyance and creates an even bigger barrier of less skilled to more skilled players, which makes something like the raiding scene even worse.

On my MCH alone. In raids I have to watch for silencing abilities, applying heavy to targets that need it, use an MP turret if needed, applying Rend Mind on heavy hits, or guiding adds where they need to go. This is while dealing with mechanics and optimizing my DPS rotation, which I have to make adjustments to every boss fight in raids. You want to throw more on top of that?

[RiceisNice]

I just used BLM as an example and that's WoW's fault for that oversight. Here in XIV, everyone has more than one element. It creates strategy rather...

What strategy are you talking about? All that does is create a situation where you use a skill when it's best suited, if using it at all? Heck, even in the example you gave for DRG, what's stopping them from using the fire WS even when it's going to do less damage? Are we going to be using it in a combo whenever it's up, or only when it's the most ideal?

If that DRG is going to do 20% less damage on an ability, why are we even going to take the DRG over another job that won't have this problem, or even have an ability that would be better suited? There's better way to introduce mechanics to the job that isn't tying to the elemental wheel, which is either going to cause imbalance to take away from development time, or be so homogenized that it might as well not be there at all.

Even if DRG had Fire one of it WS, how would that hurt the Job? Boss is resistance to Fire. Oh look, the DMG from said WS only lost 20% in power. I think they would be fine.

Take this ouit of a vaccum, how is that damage loss compared to other jobs? Compared to other DRG abilties? As I mentioned, you've either introduced a skill that have as ituational use and has no other use other than to sit there if it's not feasible, or if it's going to be used anyway, it's doing less damage than other jobs who do not have this issue, or moreso if they have a stronger element.

By design, fights can be more variable and less monotonous than a job's gameplay, which is persistent throughout the entire life. Not just in MMOs but games in general. You approach boss fights differently because they have different patterns, but you have relatively the same tool kits. The longevity of class design is just as limited as any other content, but at least with fight scenarios they can be different from each other (much like how jobs are different from each other, for the most part anyway). When you start introducing gimmicks like elements, you need to design fights with that in mind, which limits what you can do. Back to the WoW example, it was less of an oversight bcause those sort of niches worked when you have 39 other players with you in the party. You were much more likely to have sources of frost damage. It definitely wouldn't work as well in a 10 man raid when there's no guaranteed you could have a mage in the party for that frost mechanic, and the oversight with fire immunity comes more into line when they started adding elemental attacks to other jobs that wasn't a caster, such as survival hunters having explosive shots, but by that point the content has become so outdated (2 expansions) that it didn't matter much.

It's not the case for FFXIV when we don't have a talent system for the jobs (since armory fills that nicely), but in context of equipment and weapons, you still wouldn't want to hinder a job's performance for something as niche as elemental weaknesses/strengths

[FallenArisen0990]

Then it would completely change the DRG's rotation when DPS already have to adjust rotations based on how raid boss mechanics work. Fixing rotations within rotations. That is called being needlessly complex. Its not depth, its annoyance and creates an even bigger barrier of less skilled to more skilled players, which makes something like the raiding scene even worse.

What strategy are you talking about? All that does is create a situation where you use a skill when it's best suited, if using it at all? Heck, even in the example you gave for DRG, what's stopping them from using the fire WS even when it's going to do less damage? Are we going to be using it in a combo whenever it's up, or only when it's the most ideal?

I want to thank you guys for pointing out why I hate the Rotation system or at least in it's current state. It doesn't allow for flexibility in combat and forces you to play the game in one "True" manner. Plus people will favor others anyway if their DPS is to par. How is that any different from now with these "Experience Players Only" or "Tomes or Kicked" nonsense? The gaming community is already in a hassle state.