I guess it's time

[Velhart]

Perhaps I need to clarify what I mean on FFXIV moving forward. I was talking about it's vertical progression and not depending on stretching one piece of content out as long as it can like FFXI did in it's horizontal system. Note that I speak of content in it's supposed prime. FFXIV always bringing in new content to take on (not saying concept wise). They may throw you back into previous content for things like relic or bird farming for Primals or roulettes. But their actual contribution to your ability to increase a lot in the prime end game content is very minimal.

[KitingGenbu]

...

You like to mention that XI had content that was stretched for years, but maybe you do not realize how many people honestly could not clear parts of it lol. Having reliable groups to farm sets for something like sky or sea, with sea having more challenge than sky of course, but at the same time not as many people as you might think could clear it. Judging by your comments, you might have been in the minority like many of us were to have linkshells to dedicated to that kind of endgame content. Personally, I did dynamis so much that I hated it since it was just routine. But the rewards were objectively good. Doing raids or whatever in XIV doesn't give me that feeling since honestly the gear you get is objectively better to a degree. Not much could replace a relic in XI if you had one, but your progression honestly didn't stop just because you had one. It was so arbitrary to get one that many people only had one if they could get it (150m-ish to get one the time I really played, which including currency loan). Of course some people dont like the idea of only having one option if they are lucky enough to get it, but factor in 14 other classes (even though the mage ones weren't really worth it) and you honestly have too much to do.

So the question lies, would you rather have too much to do that is the same but gives you objective progression or 'new' things that are only a flash in the pain with pretty much glamour as a reward which is honestly subjective in terms of how good it it (since everyone has different ideas on what looks good).

[Velhart]

So the question lies, would you rather have too much to do that is the same but gives you objective progression or 'new' things that are only a flash in the pain with pretty much glamour as a reward which is honestly subjective in terms of how good it it (since everyone has different ideas on what looks good).

I rather have new content(even if formulaic), and new things thrown in when they believe they have a good idea (Diadem, Aquapolis, etc.).

For FFXI's end game. While content was most definitely challenging, it was heavily gated. Gated to the point that a lot of LS's did not accomplish certain pieces of content. A lot of the content was not accessible unless you go through conditions just to be able to attempt it once. Rather it be seals in Sky/Sea, Kindred Seals for KSNM's, fighting other LS's for King HNM's, long wait times to try again like Dynamis, and so on. It is hard to say how quick content could be beat if FFXI had the level of accessibility that FFXIV has right now.

For FFXIV, I really have my doubts a gated system like that would flow on the casual part of the market. I personally like the accessible, yet challenging approach to content. FFXI's approach to bosses was a lot a preparation then hope for a proper execution. FFXIV's approach is more open to trial and error and get it done trying again and again. Not saying one is better than the other, but if you want a system that pleases all casual, midcore, and hardcore, I think one's chances are better with accessible/challenging. A heavily gated version I believe would drive casuals away and favor mostly hardcore players.

In terms of proper reward. I can agree to an extent. The issue is and would like to see how some suggest to approach it, is if you give too many options for say ilvl240 gear, you will end up in the same issue that happened in 2.0. Where AF+1 gear and relic weapon were on par with raid gear/weapon. To a lot it made it seem like raiding was pointless since they could just get top ilvl items without the hassle of raiding. They changed the ilvl of the weapon in raids to influence people to jump back in and have been doing that since then. So my question is, how can we offer these variety of options without breaking balance in other content? Not saying it can't be done, but I am interested to see how it can be pulled off.

[KitingGenbu]

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I wont tackle HNMs since everyone who played XI knows how those were usually gotten, but what exactly is wrong with farming pops to be able to get access to more content? I wont agree with the timers on NMs for many of those pops, but if you're acquiring things by doing stuff you usually do (i.e. obtaining kindred seals, etc from exp) there shouldn't be a huge problem. Its kind of the same thing as maps tbh but on a wider scale.

For the most part coil and primals were gated weren't they? Couldn't touch t6 unless you cleared the previous leaving many stuck on t5, so they had to either 'git gud' or buy clear. Many people couldn't clear Titan HM lol. Personally, I liked content like that since it felt really good when you cleared it knowing so many people were stuck on it (for me at least). Dynamis in XI you couldn't do the the higher stuff till you cleared all the cities.

Gating isn't always bad and just because everyone is paying to play this game doesn't mean everything should be handed to them. You pay for access to a fair playing field. Some people are better than others and yes networking is a skill. Anyone who has ever worked knows this. Even if you aren't the most 'skilled' person in terms of playing, showing that you're willing to get better is honestly good enough for some people.

As far as proper rewards, I feel SE should just follow the rules they are trying to put in place with PvP, which is having certain skills that only work in PvP. The same could easily be done with PvE. Gear swapping in general was good in XI but only for pc players since there were means to handle this that I wont go into but I'm sure people know of. Still offering + to a certain ability isnt going to break the game. If anything, it'll just show the arbitrary difficult that the dev team puts on their content since they usually clear things with a certain comp in mind.

[Savagelf]

It unlike we will see Viera because it been use for adult industry in japan this why Yoshi P. said he won't add it.

[RiceisNice]

I was talking about it's vertical progression and not depending on stretching one piece of content out as long as it can like FFXI did in it's horizontal system.

They still do this in regards to anima questline. I mean you can say the anima quest is new content, but that content is sending you back to do things that are already there (the aforementioned of stretching old content). It's not in the same circumstances as a raid fight (which are already filling it's own niche group of hardcores)

Note that I speak of content in it's supposed prime. FFXIV always bringing in new content to take on (not saying concept wise). They may throw you back into previous content for things like relic or bird farming for Primals or roulettes. But their actual contribution to your ability to increase a lot in the prime end game content is very minimal.

This is entirely the problem for me though. If me fighting a dodo in a different area is considered new content, this game is going to fall off my radar. That's exactly how I feel for when I go into new dungeons

(excluding the boss fights itself, but their design is a different discussion), going into Diadem, going into Aquapolis, and soon-to-be Palace. You have the EX trials and such, which is fine since it brings on it's own mechanic that goes beyond what yo usee from open world mobs, and we can farm it. But that is the difference to why something like farming EX trials can actually be considered fun for me, rather than farming Diadem for gear... both times I am working toward getting mounts or a drop, but Diadem is on a completely different level of absurd boredom for me.

[odintius]

Perhaps I need to clarify what I mean on FFXIV moving forward. I was talking about it's vertical progression and not depending on stretching one piece of content out as long as it can like FFXI did in it's horizontal system.

I would of liked deep dungeon to introduce a different rewards and keep what they currently planing also, by adding gear set bonus nothing to drastic, but as you gain points if instead of wanting that weapon how about we get to chose to people by giving a piece of gear that gives a couple of options at first to add of gear set bonus and only one can be applied and no can't stack bonuses on all pieces. If deep dungeon is fun and engaging as it sounds like it would be, this alone would make me want to repeat to complete my gear and perhaps accessories. Although it will need to be implemented properly though it would need allot of flushing out that will require work, but at same time give everyone access to use this system would feel more rewarding imo, Diedeim would mostly be materia and spiritbonding imo but meh hope for the best.

[Savagelf]

yes it does but if you where do google search you find bad when they use Viera in early days yoshi p point this out

[KitingGenbu]

yes it does but if you where do google search you find bad when they use Viera in early days yoshi p point this out

I suppose a rename is out of the cards? Not like they renamed every race from XI in XIV or anything...

[Genaxx]

Still no dev response to this? Clearly this is an issue that needs to be addressed. I feel sorry for the people holding out on 4.0 chances are they will be dissapointed.