Variance in player skill is hurting FFXIV's itemization design.

[zosia]

There are 3 ways to nerf an encounter:
-direct nerfst to abilities and mob stats
-indirect nerfs through buffs (echo)
-increasing the raids item level past the item level that was initially available.

If you clear an encounter while wearing the item level it drops because the 3 months period where said item level was exclusive to said encounter, you down the encounter in a nerfed state.
EG: clearing A8S while wearing 240s in slots you would otherwise not have had access to 240 items (chest me thinks).
OR: clearing A7S while wearing 240 relic weapons.

You can get the augment primal chest to fill your 240 slot.

I had access to twines and the lore to get the chest, but it was terrible for my class. I instead use the Eikon chest. Please keep going on and making assumptions, It's cute.

You can be full 240 without clearing a8s, you just need a few weeks of a7s loot. Shows how much you know about FFXIV raiding. You are trying to be provocative, but rest assured, I am far from raging. Also, if you wanna talk facts, show me which wow mythic tier had LFR gear at a mythic ILVL.

That is a nice fact you like to ignore. While a mythic tier is current in wow, there is no way for players to get mythic ilvl gear without doing mythic raiding. How you can cite wow/mythic without addressing the rewards wow offers their raiders? That seems to be giant gaping hole in your fact sheet my friend.

Edit: After you went back to include your repose about wow, I included a new response below.

Yes, the next normal in WoW (which is facerolld in one sitting by mythic raiders) drops BETTER loot as soon as it hits.
The (to mythic raiders) much more relevant heroic drops 705 to 720 wich is quite the difference, esp when you factor in new set bonuses.
Now you see why guilds immediately abandon previous tiers mythic and redirect all available time into gearing up in the next tiers Heroic to get ready for next tiers mythic ASAP.

And like I said before, if there was a new wing of savage, I could care less about what drops in welfare city. So, like your saying in wow, the new normal tier would drop better gear. What you left out is that the following week, after mythic unlocks, there is new mythic gear that blows the new normal gear out of the water.

Where is my new savage gear since my old savage gear is invalidated now? Your argument has holes in it. Mythic raiders always have new mythic gear to chase down once their old gear has been trivialized. We don't have that fair exchange in this game.

[Granyala]

The story is killed in Normal mode, there is no sense of build up or progression.
(This is why multiple difficulties of the same raid suck, never was a fan myself)

Normal mode killed the appeal of aesthetics since the N and S versions of the gear look exactly the same with some of the best colors being default colors.
(This is indeed a gross design fail, Savage should have exclusive looks)

Gear is trivialized in this game, you don't need to raid to be in in raid equivalent gear.
(Good, but they should tweak it so raiders get their gear faster. The choice should be determination/loyalty vs skill. RNG loot works against that and frustrates raiders)

The only thing is the challenge and we all saw how well SCoB savage went when challenge WAS the reward.
(Intentional. Bleeding edge content only appeals to a TINY fraction of gamers. There is nothing wrong with that unless participation doesn't warrant dev efforts)

Stuff in bold = my answers to your statements.

You can be full 240 without clearing a8s, you just need a few weeks of a7s loot.

So why exactly are you blabbering on about: "Waah waah upgraded lore gear invalidates raid rewards!!11"?

Also: please read the edited information. I already gave you the proof you wanted in regards to WoWs item level distribution.

That is a nice fact you like to ignore. While a mythic tier is current in wow, there is no way for players to get mythic ilvl gear without doing mythic raiding. How you can cite wow/mythic without addressing the rewards wow offers their raiders? That seems to be giant gaping hole in your fact sheet my friend.

Well I'm biased in that regard, I openly admit it.
I think, being able to get to a similar power level of a raider is one of the charms FF has to offer, compared to WoW where your character remains useless trash unless you raid at least heroic.

Now, is it to soon to add 240 upgrades to the eso gear after 3 months or should they be gained at a slower pace than 1 item per week?
I think we could debate that one.
Maybe they should wait till the deployment of the next Tier so raiders get to keep their minor (and imho totally justified) advantage.

As long as SE looks to favor raiding over everything else without other content on the wings, non raiding content can suffer because of it.

Actually, the only problem was that they DIDN'T want to keep the item level gap.

If you keep a 10 item level gap betwenn Savage raiders and everyone else, most of these "special snowflake" / "not rewarding enough" comments would go away.
10 ilvl is noticeable, yes, but not crippling (yet, wait a few expansions >.<).

If you honestly must know why i care so much, its due to the fact that I raid lead. I have to deal with these motivations and when it comes time to replace someone (due to one reason or another), it saddens me that the raid talent pool keeps shrinking.

I can feel your pain.
As a retired officer I know all about motivational problems and the difficulty of "keeping things going".

But bribing people into the raids is not the answer. You only get people that aren't suited to diehard/bleeding edge challenge and merely want "them purplz".

Though I do think compromises should be possible. Grant savage raiders UNIQUE looking gear and a 10 item level power advantage.
Get rid of the RNG loot and make it a fair distribution.
Give raiders titles and mounts (I think they already do that, yes?)

BTW: I do think this will be the last post I can write for today, so I will edit in any remaining answers. Congrats to the idiot that came up with limited post counts per day on a discussion board lol.

[zosia]

Stuff in bold = my answers to your statements.

So why exactly are you blabbering on about: "Waah waah upgraded lore gear invalidates raid rewards!!11"?

Also: please read the edited information. I already gave you the proof you wanted in regards to WoWs item level distribution.BTW: I do think this will be the last post I can write for today, so I will edit in any remaining answers. Congrats to the idiot that came up with limited post counts per day on a discussion board lol.

If you honestly must know why i care so much, its due to the fact that I raid lead. I have to deal with these motivations and when it comes time to replace someone (due to one reason or another), it saddens me that the raid talent pool keeps shrinking. I see raiding in wow, and it seems to almost had a resurgence at different points (as well as low points). Raiding in this game has only been getting progressively worse. Less people with more challenging content is only going to lead to a slow death, one that might be unavoidable at this point.

I want better raid incentives so I don't have to constantly keep motivating people. I want better incentives so people actually want to raid in this game rather than waiting for catch up patches. I am at my brink with raiding in this game and honestly think it's just better to sub for the last few months of an xpac when you can just DF +40% echo all of the content. I really think this game is going to end up such that people sub for a month for the story and unsub for two months until the next patch drops.

Zosia , Gordias savage came about because of the demands of the raiding tier. And in order to keep gordias its pie in the sky reward SE had to screw with other non raid content. The raiding scene was hurt the most, but they were the only ones affected by it.

As long as SE looks to favor raiding over everything else without other content on the wings, non raiding content can suffer because of it.

I agree, Gordias was just bad for the game. For everyone. What hurts one group, hurts the other. I even tried to create a peaceful olive branch thread back in august when gordias was taking statics out of the game at alarming numbers.

We need gear progression for all players, but we need to be fair about effort vs reward. I don't expect to ding 60 on WVR to follow up with doing 3/4 star crafting the week after. There needs to be a sense of progression for all with a fairness considered for those who get their first or put in more time than I do.

Lunch time over, o/

[Kallera]

...
I want better raid incentives so I don't have to constantly keep motivating people. I want better incentives so people actually want to raid in this game rather than waiting for catch up patches. I am at my brink with raiding in this game and honestly think it's just better to sub for the last few months of an xpac when you can just DF +40% echo all of the content. I really think this game is going to end up such that people sub for a month for the story and unsub for two months until the next patch drops.

making whole sections of the game only approachable for the top 1% is part of the problem here. The devs came to this conclusion when people just ignored even trying the content altogether.

Due to what happened at gordias, the devs need to tap into the crowd that hasn't, or has only limited success with, getting to and clearing the raid tier. this doesn't mean make the tier like mhach is, but without some changes it won't be worth pushing on a crowd looking for newer activities for they and their friends to get into.