Alienation of Dedicated and Skilled players

[Seraphix2407]

..

I like your post, because you look at other peoples views rather than say ''no I dont want because I cant'' Please have my cookie sir.

[Lorielle]

This entire thread just sounds like an "I'm an entitled little shi*te, give me everything on a silver platter..." kinda thread.

If you arent enjoying yourself here, then find a new game. That by no uncertain terms means that SE is alienating you. The entire premise behind XIV has always been to remain fair to all. Everyone regardless of playtime or style, can remain relevant. Those who have more time to play actually do come out with more things achieved than those who dont, it just depends on how they choose to use that time. If your playing every day all day and only doing battle content, well no wonder you're burned out. There is way more than just raiding/battles out there. If you've no interest in the other content then that not the fault of SE or others. Find another game to fill the void. Otherwise, maybe try placing yourself in various other contents, like crafting, gathering, gardening, hunts, etc. There's so much stuff to do I am usually wishing I had more time to do it...


As for the OP's stance on wanting horizontal progression, Yoshi-P stated why they didnt want to do this, because of the negative impacts it had with XI. But if you want your Horizontal progression, please, go play XI.

> Please go play XI

Funny part is they already are. Moot suggestion is moot.

I really don't understand why people are against having more content in the game that can just potentially make it more than what it is? Don't like it? Play something else? The issue is we like the game and we want to see it grow. We want to keep playing it. We're not "burnt out". There's nothing to be "burned out" on. We could quit for months. Come back and be caught up within a few hours or a couple days given how the game is. Then we're back at the same issue. Going to tell us to play something else again? We participate in this content just as much as everyone else. But again, time and time again, we keep asking for ways to make this content more relevant. More meaningful. Some reason to do it more than just "Capping Lore tomes" or "Next relic progression that's going to get destroyed for the next relic in line"

Make a suggestion to make the game more interesting, it gets shut down. Make a post wanting more mounts and glamour items that add nothing more than a look and it gets sung to high heavens. Sigh.

[EdwinLi]

As I tell everyone looking forward to Deep Dungeon...What will be rewarding for actually running this content outside of glamour items which will probably just be thrown on the Markboard and remove the point of running in the first place? It's a great concept, but there will simply be no reason to running more than once because it doesn't really offer much.

You're looking at it too much as a place to gear up but not as a means of fun.

The 100 floor dungeon endgame are not the type of content made to be played more than once but as a means to test one skills at how far they can go.

With it continue to add more floors over time it made for those who seek to test how far they can go themselves.

[Lorielle]

You're looking at it too much as a place to gear up but not as a means of fun.
The 100 floor dungeon endgame are not the type of content made to be played more than once but as a means to test one skills at how far they can go.
With it continue to add more floors over time it made for those who seek to test how far they can go themselves.

Okay. Sure. Look. Then let's say X person clears this 100 Floor Dungeon with ease. Something that was supposed to test ones skills.
What was the reward for having our skills put to the test? Good job, Well Done? A pat on the back?
....
I guess that can suffice for some people, but to me, that works only the first time only because it's new.
SCoB was like that, but it was actually VERY challenging content that the time for the raiding scene. That idea has lost its meaning over time.
I don't expect Deep Dungeon to be like that at all since its meant to be accessible by all scenes.

[Underdog2204]

We could quit for months. Come back and be caught up within a few hours or a couple days given how the game is.

Oh yes I can see why no-one would like this precise aspect of the game... It is the very reason I do come back because I know I don't have to quit my social life and job just to play catch-up. But ofc you think that everyone would love for this to be changed to suit you.

Do I care the relic is redundant now? Nope because we have anima. Do I care anima will get replaced? Nope because I'll look forward to that replacement. Do I like that relics can be made pretty easily now for people who want to retain it's style? Yes I do. Do I want newbies to have to go through months of grind to be considered relevent? Nope I don't.

People just don't want what you suggest.

[Lorielle]

Oh yes I can see why no-one would like this precise aspect of the game... It is the very reason I do come back because I know I don't have to quit my social life and job just to play catch-up. But ofc you think that everyone would love for this to be changed to suit you.

Do I care the relic is redundant now? Nope because we have anima. Do I care anima will get replaced? Nope because I'll look forward to that replacement. Do I like that relics can be made pretty easily now for people who want to retain it's style? Yes I do. Do I want newbies to have to go through months of grind to be considered relevent? Nope I don't.

People just don't want what you suggest.

Huuuh....I wonder where people are getting the idea you had to quit your social life and job just to make progress in another game. Was this a jab at XI? It had to have been. Was this your personal experience talking or just something you're parroting? No one had to put that much time in one sitting. Much like you guys keep telling US to do. Play in different sessions. So you don't feel "burnt out". That's how it works, right? To me, I consider XI just being that much more immersive that you forget where the time has gone. But to each their own, yes?

You're right. I want everything changed to suit me. This game should be centered and catered around what I want! /sarcasm
I'm giving you guys more credit than you want to believe in being able to adapt. I'm not even asking for an overhaul to anything. So I don't get why you get off on saying X time required to catch up needs to change to suit me. But whatever helps you paint yourself the good guy, I guess.

I get it. You don't care much for depth at all. That's fine. Some people do. Some people don't. The topic is just asking for more to work with. Some depth!

And while you may not want the newbies to go through the content to catch up, others don't agree with that sentiment. How do I know? Well those leveling potions seem to share a great view of people's standpoint. But shouldn't we implement those so the game can be casual? Everyone should be on equal footing right? Why learn how to play a game? Why challenge yourself to be better? Why do any of this?

The value of hard work seems to matter very little these days.

[zosia]

Oh yes I can see why no-one would like this precise aspect of the game... It is the very reason I do come back because I know I don't have to quit my social life and job just to play catch-up. But ofc you think that everyone would love for this to be changed to suit you.

Do I care the relic is redundant now? Nope because we have anima. Do I care anima will get replaced? Nope because I'll look forward to that replacement. Do I like that relics can be made pretty easily now for people who want to retain it's style? Yes I do. Do I want newbies to have to go through months of grind to be considered relevent? Nope I don't.

People just don't want what you suggest.

Speak for yourself.

Also,



I think based off of how wiping city feedback has been, people are ready for more depth and content that has more teeth than what exists now. The real world does not work in slippery slopes like you present. Incorporating some of those suggestions does not mean that you will have to quit your job or give up your family to progress in the end game. Stop being hyperbolic, not everyone wants to play the final fantasy rendition of club penguin.

[Underdog2204]

Huuuh....I wonder where people are getting the idea you had to quit your social life and job just to make progress in another game. Was this a jab at XI? It had to have been. Was this your personal experience talking or just something you're parroting? No one had to put that much time in one sitting. Much like you guys keep telling US to do. Play in different sessions. So you don't feel "burnt out". That's how it works, right? To me, I consider XI just being that much more immersive that you forget where the time has gone. But to each their own, yes?

You're right. I want everything changed to suit me. This game should be centered and catered around what I want! /sarcasm
I'm giving you guys more credit than you want to believe in being able to adapt. I'm not even asking for an overhaul to anything. So I don't get why you get off on saying X time required to catch up needs to change to suit me. But whatever helps you paint yourself the good guy, I guess.

I get it. You don't care much for depth at all. That's fine. Some people do. Some people don't. The topic is just asking for more to work with. Some depth!

And while you may not want the newbies to go through the content to catch up, others don't agree with that sentiment. How do I know? Well those leveling potions seem to share a great view of people's standpoint. But shouldn't we implement those so the game can be casual? Everyone should be on equal footing right? Why learn how to play a game? Why challenge yourself to be better? Why do any of this?

The value of hard work seems to matter very little these days.

It just goes right over your head huh? It's not me who's asking to overhaul the way things are (and is why the game is sucessful) and change it to something it never was.

Not a jab at FFXI per say more like basic experience that can be applied to every single MMO you are saying this one should emulate... Since you yourself applied it to FFXI you can consider it relevent to the argument.

No it doesn't in virtual games because it always amounts to nothing and it's not me who has been unable to adapt to the changing game market. You are stuck a decade ago it seems.

I think based off of how wiping city feedback has been, people are ready for more depth and content that has more teeth than what exists now. The real world does not work in slippery slopes like you present. Incorporating some of those suggestions does not mean that you will have to quit your job or give up your family to progress in the end game. Stop being hyperbolic, not everyone wants to play the final fantasy rendition of club penguin.

Oh so changing gear and having weapon grinds stay the way they are constantly (because they are "relevent" all the time), having to get multiple amounts of armour and weapons to suit different senarios etc isn't going to force people to gind all this stuff out? Yeah I see how that makes sense /s.

You are using a strawman and zero idea my preference in regards to difficulty. Boss difficulty and forced grind is not even remotly the same thing if anyone is being hyperbolic it is yourself - "not everyone wants to play the final fantasy edition of club penguin"... Really -_-

I know this wasn't to me, but I have to respond to that. I do savage content, what does players like yourself call me? Hardcore. Why? because I do savage. I work 8-12 hours from 4-6 times a week, including hanging out almost everyday after work with my friends and then gym for 2 hours which is 5 times a week. And I still manage to get my shit done. You see this isn't all about catch up either, the catch up itself is easy phase and once it's done (which takes almost no time) there is nothing to do. What Lori wants is content that you can do when you log on and still have things to do, instead of playing catch up day and night. Lets face it catch up patches are for the majority right? Then once they catched up there is nothing to do, again. I find it funny I have more life and do more things than most people and still can pull things off easier and faster than most. I need some one to explain that to me, that be great

Yes that's fine I don't really care what you call yourself tbh.

Ok so now add ontop of that having to get multiple armour sets for the content you are doing at the moment and holding onto them forever incase they "are relevent". Now got get 5 different weapons, 10 different rings etc. Then take a break come back and see how easy it is to catch up to do that content again.

And this is just for one of the jobs you might enjoy playing.

Anyways, to reply to your points. Yeah, people have been asking for more horizontal progression for ages. Gear sets, special effects, different stats, etc. Just because YOU don't want it does not mean I good portion of players do. Just do a quick forum search and get yourself some facts n data served up straight from the source. People have been creating threads since 2.0 asking about horizontal progression.

Yes they have and they still don't have it.

Is the game dead yet like they said it would be? Seems ok to me.

So it seems that "good portion of people" what to force their horizonal progression onto the larger community that didn't buy into that.

[Seraphix2407]

Oh yes I can see why no-one would like this precise aspect of the game... It is the very reason I do come back because I know I don't have to quit my social life and job just to play catch-up. But ofc you think that everyone would love for this to be changed to suit you.

I know this wasn't to me, but I have to respond to that. I do savage content, what does players like yourself call me? Hardcore. Why? because I do savage. I work 8-12 hours from 4-6 times a week, including hanging out almost everyday after work with my friends and then gym for 2 hours which is 5 times a week. And I still manage to get my shit done. You see this isn't all about catch up either, the catch up itself is easy phase and once it's done (which takes almost no time) there is nothing to do. What Lori wants is content that you can do when you log on and still have things to do, instead of playing catch up day and night. Lets face it catch up patches are for the majority right? Then once they catched up there is nothing to do, again. I find it funny I have more life and do more things than most people and still can pull things off easier and faster than most. I need some one to explain that to me, that be great.

No one told you to stop having a social life or quit your job just because there would be more progression to do. People who play more than me, progress slower than me, so please explain that part too.

[zosia]

It just goes right over your head huh? It's not me who's asking to overhaul the way things are (and is why the game is sucessful) and change it something it never was.Not a jab at FFXI per say more like basic experience that can be applied to every single MMO you are saying this one should emulate... Since you yourself applied it to FFXI you can consider it relevent to the argument.

Yes it does in virtual games because it always amounts to nothing and it's not me who has been unable to adapt to the changing game market. You are stuck a decade ago it seems.



Oh so changing gear and having weapon grinds stay the way they are constantly (because they are "relevent" all the time), having to get multiple amounts of armour and weapons to suit different senarios etc isn't going to force people to gind all this stuff out? Yeah I see how that makes sense /s.

You are using a strawman and zero idea my preference in regards to difficulty. Boss difficulty and forced grind is not even remotly the same thing if anyone is being hyperbolic it is yourself - "not everyone wants to play the final fantasy edition of club penguin"... Really -_-

A strawman? lol. Tossing out a fallacy does not make you smart or lend your statements credibility. Please explain where I built up a false narrative to refute it.

Anyways, to reply to your points. Yeah, people have been asking for more horizontal progression for ages. Gear sets, special effects, different stats, etc. Just because YOU don't want it does not mean a good portion of players do. Just do a quick forum search and get yourself some facts n data served up straight from the source. People have been creating threads since 2.0 asking about horizontal progression.

As to the strawman point, no. No I did not create some fictitious over exaggerated narrative to prove my point. You were the one being hyperbolic carrying on about irl obligations and remaining relevant in an endgame. Maybe my club penguin comment was hyperbolic, but certainly not a strawman, lol.

Also, you never really addressed my points about people wanting more depth in this game. You predicated most of your response as me trying a straw-man tactic while side stepping my point.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy

Ok so now add ontop of that having to get multiple armour sets for the content you are doing at the moment and holding onto them forever incase they "are relevent". Now got get 5 different weapons, 10 different rings etc. Then take a break come back and see how easy it is to catch up to do that content again.

There's that slippery slope again. Does it really need to be 10 rings? How about a more REASONABLE amount, like 3-4 rings. How about gear that could be relevant for more than six months? Why does it have to be "forever"? You know at best gear would only be relevant for an expansion? Even then, powerful or relevant gear would probably only last a few tiers despite having desirable effects.

Hyperbolic, lol.

Yes they have and they still don't have it.

Is the game dead yet like they said it would be? Seems ok to me.

So it seems that "good portion of people" what to force their horizonal progression onto the larger community that didn't buy into that.

Just because we don't have horizontal progression does not mean anything about the number of people who want it. It actually means very little outside of the fact that we don't horizontal progression.

More inventory space
Ishgardian Housing
Cooldown reset upon wipe
Egi glamours
etc etc etc

There are plenty of ideas that are desired by many players and we are yet to have. Just because an idea is not implemented does not mean there is a correlation between that idea and how badly players want it. We still can't queue with chocobos out, but that does not imply the majority of players don't want that feature. There is simply other limitations preventing that feature.

Not having a great feature won't kill the game. Please don't assume that I agree with all the pro horizontal progression replies in this thread. Please show me where I said not having horizontal progression would kill the game?