Cleric stance needs change just for melding sake as healer

[RiceisNice]

He just told you.

Dps don't sacrifice dps stats.

Yes we do? Accuracy takes up stat budgeting for secondary. If we're taking accuracy, we're not taking crit, det or SS, much like healers do. I've even had several occasions where I couldn't use a higher ilvl piece because it had no accuracy (and it was much more exasperated in 2.x when the BRD relic had accuracy and gear didn't, so I wasn't able to use the tomestone weapon)

Healers sacrifice healing stats. It's stupid that an optional thing that we can do ends up hurting our primary role if we choose to pursue it.

Then don't? Last I checked, they don't design encounters to require healer dps, and you even mention that it's an optional thing (IE, something you're going out of your way for)

Well I obviously think there is something very wrong with that.

And I think it's something very wrong if a healer is capable of dpsing as well as a dps (and for the mostt part, they are), much more so if they get less required optimization in order to exceed their role.

[Ghishlain]

Well I obviously think there is something very wrong with that.

No body is forcing a healer to meld Accuracy. It's up to the healer's discretion if they want to meld Accuracy or if they want to meld stats that more benefit their healing capacity.

That is the choice of the player. The player is making a conscious decision to reduce their healing potential to increase their damage potential.

Would you rather they remove Cleric Stance outright in 4- and 8- man play? Because that would be S-E forcing the decision onto the players.

Alternatively, would you rather S-E say that they now take healer DPS into account for Savage tiers, thus forcing healers to meld Accuracy to contribute more damage to their raid? Because that is also S-E forcing the decision onto players.

I think there's more wrong with the player being forced into a position they rather not be in and instead let them decide how they want to meld their gear.

[winsock]

They do, that's what MND is for.

MND boosts healing. INT boosts damage. Cleric Stance's conversion allows gives you the dmg for free.

Why such a big issue with accuracy increasing healer damage for some of the newer content, while the MND -> INT conversion affects healer dmg everywhere in the game?

Then what is the problem here? You're saying you accuracy is infact detrimental to your role as a healer, but you end up taking it anyway to...effectively play as a healer?

As a dps, you get your cake and eat it too. You can focus every stat into your role and dont take penalties anywhere.
Tanks are in a similar spot, ACC helps them keep threat. It benefits the role as a whole. Heck, tanks even get atk power from VIT now.

On healer, you dont get these luxuries. If you take accuracy to take advantage of the your downtime, your healing potential is lowered. Take healing stats and you're less effective during your downtime. Why should dps and tanks get the best of both worlds while healers need to pick?

Again, why should healers get a free boost to accuracy while dps doesn't, when they're just as capable of melding acc as well as using food?

see above

[Ghishlain]

On healer, you dont get these luxuries. If you take accuracy to take advantage of the your downtime, your healing potential is lowered. Take healing stats and you're less effective during your downtime. Why should dps and tanks get the best of both worlds while healers need to pick?

Out of curiosity, who's forcing a healer to pick Accuracy to lower their healing potential? It's certainly not the game.

That's the point Riceisnice is trying to make. Healer's make a conscious choice when they decided "Accuracy" or "DET/PIE/SpS/Crit" (and admittedly the healing stats also augment the healer DPS).

Also, healer's don't suddenly stop DPSing because they don't have 100% hit rate. It just becomes less efficient.

[RiceisNice]

On healer, you dont get these luxuries. If you take accuracy to take advantage of the your downtime, your healing potential is lowered. Take healing stats and you're less effective during your downtime. Why should dps and tanks get the best of both worlds while healers need to pick?

DPS doesn't even get the proverbial two worlds, and tanks still need to meet flank caps at the minimum so they don't miss from the front with tank stance. They don't even have the choice to optimize toward healing or tanking. This is the first time I'm actually reading a problem about being able to stat your character differently to suit your playstyle. Accuracy "increases" their damage just as muc has it does for healers through having their attacks miss less frequently. Infact, DPS are the most affected by not having enough accuracy (except for BRD to a smaller extent) because that usually means they don't get buff (monk stances, BLM astral fire, aethertrail and MCH procs) or combo extensions. Healers have none of that

It's not being forced, and you're only making a problem out of it because it's an inconvenience to go out of your way to do something optional.

[winsock]

Out of curiosity, who's forcing a healer to pick Accuracy to lower their healing potential? It's certainly not the game.

Its not as if the game 'forces' any class to slot X stat.
The game doesnt 'force' DPS or tanking roles to slot accuracy either.

What the game does do is create a scenario where:
* tanks can slot stats with only tanking role considerations
* dps can slot stats with only dps role considerations
* healers must choose between the effectiveness of their role and the effectiveness of their downtime.

[Ghishlain]

Its not as if the game 'forces' any class to slot X stat.
The game doesnt 'force' DPS or tanking roles to slot accuracy either.

What the game does do is create a scenario where:
* tanks can slot stats with only tanking role considerations
* dps can slot stats with only dps role considerations
* healers must choose between the effectiveness of their role and the effectiveness of their downtime.

And this is bad in what way?

Basically, what you're implying is

Capable of only performing your Primary Function > Choice between 2 Functions

I like the freedom S-E has given me as a healer. And as Riceisnice has stated

DPS doesn't even get the proverbial two worlds,

And

This is the first time I'm actually reading a problem about being able to stat your character differently to suit your playstyle.

Which I agree with.

[Rawrz]

The only reason people seem to think they are cheated as a healer from secondary stats is that we as healers, juggle one extra stat, compared to DPS. Tanks are in the same boat with parry and thats why they whine, because overall its "useless" towards raw output. Piety. Piety. Piety. As healers we have 500+ more piety than DPS and allot of it comes from our gear. To obtain accuracy with no draw-backs in the healing potency/DPS department you'd have to choose gear that has 100% no piety. That is not only impossible but goes against the healing role, since you NEED your large MP pool.

TLDR: If you want ACC you need to give up another vital stat such as Piety, which DPS do not naturally gain. DPS do it on their gear, but HAVE LESS CHOICE because the game shoves it down their throats on pieces. Healers are in a good spot.

[winsock]

DPS doesn't even get the proverbial two worlds, and tanks still need to meet flank caps at the minimum so they don't miss from the front with tank stance. They don't even have the choice to optimize toward healing or tanking.

lol wait... how does taking accuracy NOT benefit the tanking role? Taking accuracy helps the tank keep threat, which is pretty important xD.

Accuracy "increases" their damage just as muc has it does for healers through having their attacks miss less frequently.

Apples and oranges, you dont take penalties by taking acc

It's not being forced, and you're only making a problem out of it because it's an inconvenience to go out of your way to do something optional.

Im confused. who said it was forced. The game doesnt force any stat. I've search the term "force" on the past 3 pages and only see it from Ghishlain and yourself.

Again, ill ask you a question. Why are you up in arms about accuracy but not the MND -> INT conversion?

[winsock]

Basically, what you're implying is

Capable of only performing your Primary Function > Choice between 2 Functions

Im not sure how free accuracy for healers limits them to only one function. Care to elaborate?

I wouldn't mind all content was healing intensive enough to require my attention at all times, but i dont see that as a realistic thing to happen, and ill settle for dpsing during downtime. But yeah, I support the existence of 'roles' in my role playing games