Cleric stance needs change just for melding sake as healer

[Yhisa]

Point of this thread is that healers who stack accuracy are getting better gains per materia then crit,det,spell speed would offer

Also if u miss ur spell ur wasting MP which is gimping ur effectiveness in progression or even if u turn on cleric stance to help out a little... A miss is a miss u wasted Mp and did 0 damage so ur effectiveness was 0

There is a lot of mechanics in game which allows healer to dishout some damage... People who refuse this are either lazy and just like to stand around watching health bars not moving... As a healer ur there to heal and support ur group at all times.... Standing around watching health bars is killing ur support role as a healer... Within this time u can add some damage instead of staring blindly at healthbars waiting for players to take damage

Its the same rule for off tanking... Just because ur not main tanking does not mean u can AFK the fight until its ur turn to tank or to soak up cleave damage

[Ahki]

I never joined a group that blamed me for not meeting DPS checks. It's just stupid.. Healers are not required to DPS, but they are allowed to DPS. People tell healers who don't DPS "noobs" because they just stand there doing nothing when something could be done. It doesn't matter what job you play, once player spot people not doing their best, they would be called noobs or even worse. I'm just surprised how some people.. such as yourself don't think more intelligently.

I speak from experience. I have been kicked out of 2 alexander midas savage groups since 3.2 for doing more healing and shielding than DPSing. I want to be a good healer with shields that can throw in some DPS occasionally, but the meta wants a good DPS that can occasionally heal and shield. I guess I have to be the meta or I will never beat alexander midas savage.

The changes to the other materia would have to be extremely significant, and even still SCH would be forced to slot accuracy because the community views SCH as only a "DPS healer." Adding accuracy to cleric stance might at least free up a slot or 2 for other materia.

[nexas506]

-_- Yay... another cleric stance thread.

[Kerrigen]

I speak from experience. I have been kicked out of 2 alexander midas savage groups since 3.2 for doing more healing and shielding than DPSing. I want to be a good healer with shields that can throw in some DPS occasionally, but the meta wants a good DPS that can occasionally heal and shield. I guess I have to be the meta or I will never beat alexander midas savage.

The changes to the other materia would have to be extremely significant, and even still SCH would be forced to slot accuracy because the community views SCH as only a "DPS healer." Adding accuracy to cleric stance might at least free up a slot or 2 for other materia.

"The Meta".

It's not an all-powerful "meta" that dictates it, it's narrow-minded people within the community. My group has both healers DPSing, with me usually (it's becoming less and less true) having more DPS uptime as a WHM/AST than my new SCH co-healer, simply because I'm more experienced with raiding and he's not confident in stance dancing a lot yet. You make room for it, especially with the enrage timers being a lot more lenient in 3.2 content. It's not inflexible.

While I would like content to be designed with less healing downtime (although it looks like we're going in the right direction), encounter design is what it is and we don't want to be sitting on our hands when there's no healing required either. Flailing around won't change anything, feedback will change the way they design encounters.

Adapt and discuss tactics with your groups, it doesn't have to be "SCH is a DPS that occasionally heals", which has clearly become "SCH is an 8th low DPS that never even shields" for a lot of less-skilled people I encounter in DF and PF groups.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

I speak from experience. I have been kicked out of 2 alexander midas savage groups since 3.2 for doing more healing and shielding than DPSing. I want to be a good healer with shields that can throw in some DPS occasionally, but the meta wants a good DPS that can occasionally heal and shield. I guess I have to be the meta or I will never beat alexander midas savage.

It's not part of the topic, but I am quite curious what the other healer was doing then. Was the other healing doing any damage worth mentioning or pulling their own weight in the form of healing to allow you to push more damage?

[Ahki]

It's not part of the topic, but I am quite curious what the other healer was doing then. Was the other healing doing any damage worth mentioning or pulling their own weight in the form of healing to allow you to push more damage?

The tank kept dying because the WHM kept dpsing while main healing, so I decided to provide more support, but was ultimately blamed because we kept hitting enrage. IMO, keeping the tank alive is more important.

[konage]

Omg tanks got to meld strength to maintain hate. Inb4 lol parry useless anyways.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

The tank kept dying because the WHM kept dpsing while main healing, so I decided to provide more support, but was ultimately blamed because we kept hitting enrage. IMO, keeping the tank alive is more important.

Eh, this is a very sensitive spot concerning healer DPS in general. A lot of players, especially those who do not heal and just demand damage, have no clue how it works. It generally leads to two things:
1) Boxing in performance for each individual
2) Has certain end results in mind without the know-hows of achieving those results

In case of 1: Because the other healer contributes a lot of damage, but not a lot of healing, you end up with the inability to contribute damage yourself while patching up/catering towards the other healer - Based on the information provided so far, anyway.
In case of 2: For a lot of players the end result is all that matters. Good results can only be achieved if the overal performance and synergy are good. If it's extremely one-sided, good visible and measurable results will be one sided as well.

It's an area that's especially "iffy" for healer pairs, as the only thing that can be measured is the DPS/HPS being pushed out and DPS is all that matters in the end for a lot of people. If we were to take the case you presented as example - The one with the tanks dying, because the white mage is stuck in Cleric's Stance - then the White Mage might need to reconsider the possible windows where he/she can afford to be in Cleric's Stance. If said white mage is in Cleric's Stance at a time when he/she should not be, then someone has to compensate. If you're the only one compensating and the other healer is stuck in their DPS bubble mindset, then obviously someone will be displaying poor results. If anything, if you haven't done so with the previous group, it may be worth discussing and shape a healing plan with the other healer. It'll lead to better results when both do their own share of healing and both spend more GCDs on spells that has more potency, over a single healer doing all the damage and the other doing all the healing.

[Ghishlain]

The tank kept dying because the WHM kept dpsing while main healing, so I decided to provide more support, but was ultimately blamed because we kept hitting enrage. IMO, keeping the tank alive is more important.

So basically, refer back to Kerrigan's post.

The meta should be (and sadly it's not for some people) about reducing healer idle time. This generally means more DPS from the healer since there's not a lot to do in the healer kit once you're out of healing to do.

In 8-man content, this meta is achieved by both healers have an understanding and trust and know when to back each other up. For some groups that means they share the healing and DPS duties more evenly and for others they push one healer to do significantly more while the other outputs DPS.

Any group that doesn't understand that healer DPS is icing on the cake and blame the healer for "not outputting enough" aren't groups you want to participate in either. If they're that narrow minded about raiding, they won't get to far initially because they're far too concerned about brute force then actual adaptability.

With that being said, the healer has the easier time outputting more DPS once the DPS and Tanks start hitting the upper limit of their DPS potential and should be taking the time to learn when they can to assist the group in meeting checks, especially if the group is attempting content that is undergeared.

It would be nice to know if the DPS and tanks in the group you were participating in were able to beat the SSS for A5S because if they can't, that's speaks to their own failure and not anything you can do about it.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

The tank kept dying because the WHM kept dpsing while main healing, so I decided to provide more support, but was ultimately blamed because we kept hitting enrage. IMO, keeping the tank alive is more important.

W o w. This is why I hate the healer DPS meta. Sounds like your static was full of bads and you were just a scapegoat.