3.2 PvP: Feast Game Mode Discussion Thread.

[Cynric]

snip

In my experience DPS are better at harassing AST's than DRK. DRK isn't very good at harassing anything that instant casts. But that's not a weakness in the strategy it's a weakness in the job. PLD/WAR have no trouble holding an AST long enough to prevent healing to a single DPS while it gets bursted in 2-3 seconds.

Maybe if Syphon actually stole MP from them it would be a better job. DRK isn' by any means weak but its harass is only really usable on SCH/WHM. Ast really doesn't have any counters other than SMN, and SMN counters everything except monk.

[Nalien]

In my experience DPS are better at harassing AST's than DRK. DRK isn't very good at harassing anything that instant casts. But that's not a weakness in the strategy it's a weakness in the job. PLD/WAR have no trouble holding an AST long enough to prevent healing to a single DPS while it gets bursted in 2-3 seconds.

There is nothing wrong with the strategy, I'm complaining about how people are blindly following it. You don't just say "tank focus healer" when your tank simply isn't equipped to take on their healer. It's like saying "always do rock in rock, paper, scissors", when you know your opponent is someone who always does paper... People are just blindly following that strategy and refusing to deviate from it at all, despite the fact that is simply does not work all the time... Party composition should dictate your strategy, not just sticking to some generalized order... I've yet to find a single group that actually listened to me when I said "Dark Knight cannot counter Astrologian well", they're all just intent on sticking to having the tank harass healer, despite that not being a fool-proof strategy because party composition is key in this... Then they complain at me because the Astrologian could get heals through... What the hell do they expect? I tell them Dark Knight has one Stun and Astrologian has instant casts, that a Monk would be better off countering them or we'd be better off melting them from the start, but people just out right refuse to listen, even when the enemy ranged DPS has the defense kit... It's absurd... I mean props to people actually going in with a strategy, but blindly following it despite common sense is almost as bad as just going in and not focusing at all...

[Cynric]

snip

DRK doesn't counter anything well though it's the weakest of the three tanks. It just has a saving grace in being able to interrupt casts with unmend. I agree blindly following a strategy is bad, and you should change up strategy throughout the match anyway. The first plan shouldn't be the only plan. but let's be honest, DRK just really isn't that great compared to the other two tanks. it can hold its own but it will never do what they can. People expect you to though.

I do agree with what you're saying just. DRK isn't that good period anyway to begin with.

[Nalien]

I do agree with what you're saying just. DRK isn't that good period anyway to begin with.

Eh, I think it's good, just in a different way. Only problem is the chase and burst potential only really make up for the lack of crowd control utility, something like Clemency is just in a league of its own and Dark Knight just has nothing in comparison...

The main problem is Paladin and Warrior essentially have a double positive with things like Clemency/Thrill of War; Not only can they support their party, but they require less attention from their healers because they can heal themselves. That frees the healer up to focus on other things. Dark Knight, on the other hand, suffers from a double negative (which doesn't make a positive...); I have no real self healing to speak of, and I can't really do anything to support my party. I require more attention from my healer and offer nothing in exchange for that... I love my burst potential, but compared to what other tanks have this really doesn't seem balanced at all... I think they really need to play up the Drain aspect of the Job... Even if it's just something like changing Tar Pit into an OP Bloodbath, that would mean I can effectively support my party by letting my healer essentially ignore me and focus on everyone else...

Other than the Drain aspect though, I'd quite like to see the whole sacrifice aspect played up... Something similar to Sole Survivor that you put on allies? Anyone who dies with the effect deals some fairly nasty damage. Perhaps something similar to an instant cast Clemency or Cover equivalent? Rather than healing someone and healing myself though, more of a "Have some of my HP", so I can actively sacrifice my HP to (try and) save someone. That, I think, gives Dark Knight some support without becoming too similar to Paladin or Warrior. All the skills would have some fairly nice synergy, too. Going to die? Pop Sole Survivor II on yourself and toss your last 20% at a party member who needs it. Someone needs a heal? Give them 20% of your HP and pop Tar Pit to recover that HP back.

Thinking about it, do you think they could incorporate some of the recent new mechanics into PvP skills? The way medals/kits drop, for example... Wouldn't that make for a pretty great set of new PvP skills, or adjustments to existing ones? Why have Malmsight as an utterly worthless piece of crap, when it could instead act as a support skill which drops a buff for a teammate to pick up, which is proportional to the number of enemies spotted (with a cap, of course).