3.2 PLD: Clemency and Divine Veil

[Reynhart]

The problems are the scenarios where the PLD is the "only person" who can be that one person because of its ehp.

PLD is already the only one who can take any tankbuster without any assistance. The only one who could eat a chain of Akh Morn without someone to keep it alive...
Again, when you're in a Duty, your goal is to win. A situation where you screw everything and still recover is hardly significant enough to dismiss an option. When you give PLD an ability so important that it becomes your main strat, then, yes, you could say that is brings balance issue.

How bout other trials like the chrysalis? or dungeons with increasing damage damage buffs, etc?

You mean the orb part ? Where healers can save everyone by Stonekin, Succor, Sacred Soil, etc ? So, do you suggest we remove Cover because a PLD could use it to prevent one healer fom dying and allowing him to cast the LB3 ?

How does a healer doing damage prevent a DPS from maintaining high DPS for a fight?

So, you mean that you don't want PLD to be able to heal because it would steal you whole role ? Are you, again, reducing healers at spamming Cure so that you fear being oveshadowed by a PLD ?
I don't even have a healer at lvl 60, yet I know exactly that they can offer more than that.

[winsock]

Looking purely at the total amount of healing that needs to be done throughout a battle, the PLD skill that reduces it the most isn't Clemency. It's Shield Oath. Shield Oath on the MT is taking away 20% of the MT damage dealt during the fight, meaning there's 20% less total healing because of that one skill.

Everyone has partial responsibility over their own HP bar.
The healer as partial responsibility over everyone's HP bar.

Clemency affects the latter.

Shield Oath is supportive and improves on what a healer is already doing.
Clemency can be used as a substitution for specific actions a healer should have taken.

To put the shoe on the other foot:
What if healers had a skill that dumped their aggro onto a tank, with say, idk, a 1-2 cooldown?
WHM sprints ahead in a dungeon, body aggros a bunch of mobs, uses assize and maybe a swiftcast-ed medica II, then transfers the aggro to you? It's your responsibility to use skills AoE threat skills. Would this be okay? Healers occasionally being able to take care of your AoE threat for you?

[Malicewolf]

To put the shoe on the other foot:
What if healers had a skill that dumped their aggro onto a tank, with say, idk, a 1-2 cooldown?
WHM sprints ahead in a dungeon, body aggros a bunch of mobs, uses assize and maybe a swiftcast-ed medica II, then transfers the aggro to you? It's your responsibility to use skills AoE threat skills. Would this be okay? Healers occasionally being able to take care of your AoE threat for you?

You mean the skill that exists for NIN's (minus the obviously game breaking CD). A NIN could run and grab aggro on everything and then just shadewalker the tank and use a katon to get aggro on everything transferred. Or even a death blossom. He can also use smokebomb to lower enmity on whatever target he wishes. You wish to tell me this is game breaking as well? Just get rid of a NIN who already had these game breaking moves you are describing (and didn't even notice).

[Nyalia]

To put the shoe on the other foot:
What if healers had a skill that dumped their aggro onto a tank, with say, idk, a 1-2 cooldown?
WHM sprints ahead in a dungeon, body aggros a bunch of mobs, uses assize and maybe a swiftcast-ed medica II, then transfers the aggro to you? It's your responsibility to use skills AoE threat skills. Would this be okay? Healers occasionally being able to take care of your AoE threat for you?

So like, a NIN healer? That sounds awesome! I'd love the utility that gives. Just like when you have a good NIN in the party, you can lead with DPS combos and get that Goring Blade DoT ticking away several seconds early because you wouldn't have to worry about your threat for the first bit of the fight.

EDIT: I'm ignoring the "cd of 1-2 seconds" bit with the implication of no cost because that's just ridiculous. If you're trying to draw a parallel to Clemency, then the skill would cost 400-500 TP to use. Just like with Clemency, the CD wouldn't actually be "1-2 seconds," it'd be quite a long time after the first two uses because your pool would have to recover.

[Daeana]

the way I look at it is they have finally brought back the old school feel to paladin.

Clemency is expensive you can use it twice MAYBE 3 times in a row if you chain skills correctly so that is about 3/4 of my health on natural heals but if I get a crit, my crits are for over 9000 hp healed which is about half my health on a single shot and close to full health for most the rest of my party. This has finally brought back my supplement DIVINE TANK, with curing abilities that has always been in Final Fantasy series. I know this is not FFXI but my paladin from that realm was always casting cure on myself and flash to maintain hate. it was included in my rotation to keep enmity at that point OR i used it to harm undead.

Divine Veil is now like an in combat AOE Stoneskin and I think it is amazing. That absorbs 10% of my Max HP which is close to 2000 Hp pretty spot on for a stone skin in combat I wouldn't mind if it did 15-20%

Our limit break now is what rampart use to be and it changes on degrees of LB build up but I am still slightly unimpressed with LB and is personal touch to each class. I think it lacks luster and flavor.

[Malicewolf]

Divine Veil is not a in combat AOE Stone skin and I think it is amazing I just created a shield that absorbs 9000 damage on a crit save or 4000 if I healed somebody else cause half that crit was given back to me. either way you look at this this is an amazing skill. I have found now that I am relied on a bit more in parties to USE THIS COMBO and my healer stays in DPS mode longer even to the point where I have died a few times. While on unhappy with the death I was not unhappy with the teamwork DPS that may progressive party had been laying down.

Did they change DV to be based off the heal? I thought it was always 10% of the user's max hp, regardless of any other circumstance. Just curious if it was changed and i didn't notice ^^

[winsock]

PLD is already the only one who can take any tankbuster without any assistance. The only one who could eat a chain of Akh Morn without someone to keep it alive...

wait.... how is a PLD tanking damage... in any way related to brez balance or role bounds?

You mean the orb part ? Where healers can save everyone by Stonekin, Succor, Sacred Soil, etc ? So, do you suggest we remove Cover because a PLD could use it to prevent one healer fom dying and allowing him to cast the LB3 ?

Or tank LB. Of course none of these have anything to do with brez balance. Brez comes into play when you failed to take appropriate actions in the first place.

So, you mean that you don't want PLD to be able to heal because it would steal you whole role ?

Where did you get "whole role" from phrasing like:
"unique respect for role boundaries."
or
"preserve the positives from the early implementations"

[Daeana]

Did they change DV to be based off the heal? I thought it was always 10% of the user's max hp, regardless of any other circumstance. Just curious if it was changed and i didn't notice ^^

Malice I could be wrong I though it was worded as off the heal let me check now



I did just check it I stand corrected I thought it was based off the heal I am incorrect please forgive me it is 10% of Max HP but still for me that is 2000 hp easily

[winsock]

That sounds awesome!

sry i meant 1-2 mins. If you're into this sort of thing there are games like GW2 that really dont enforce traditional Tank, Healer, DPS roles at all. The end result IMO is a near-spamfest; although, a buddy of mine told me recently they were adding things like taunts.

At any rate, if you'd be fine with that type of aggro implementation for a healer, we're just two different ppl, with 2 different sets of beliefs and probably wont see eye to eye anywhere on this.

[Daeana]

Winsock are your implication's and suggestions directed towards PVP content mainly or to PVE content