New Prelim Tank updates

[raymon]

to busy atmto double check but did it say shield oath was nerfed?

[Ashkendor]

Dancing Edge exists.
http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Dancing_Edge

I'm aware Dancing Edge is a thing. I guess I missed the part where Ninja is a tank now? >_>

If it wasn't clear from my post, I was talking exclusively about tank utility. Forcing a PLD/DRK composition to take a NIN (who is also automatically taking a DPS loss just so they can keep Dancing Edge up) doesn't seem reasonable at all to me when you can just swap out either the PLD or DRK for a WAR instead. Not only do you get higher OT damage, you get the slashing debuff too.

Hrm... I don't feel like it's enough from just eyeballing it. Perhaps I just set my expectations too high for "big PLD changes".

Pretty much. Either WAR needs beat with the nerf stick or PLD (and possibly DRK?) needs more changes.

[TouchandFeel]

to busy atmto double check but did it say shield oath was nerfed?

No, it was buffed. The reduction to the damage YOU do was lowered from 20% to 15%, so PLD will do more damage in ShO now compared to what they used to.

[raymon]

No, it was buffed. The reduction to the damage YOU do was lowered from 20% to 15%, so PLD will do more damage in ShO now compared to what they used to.

my mistake then, i read it as "damage taken"

[FallenWings]

But that's kind of the thing with class synergy. Sure it's a DPS loss for the NIN personally but it sure as hell is better than the NIN not using it all for no reason. Its still a raid boost which seems to be NINs quirk. It's like arguing why SMN, BLM, SCH, and WHM don't have Foe Requiem or why BRD and MCH don't have Disembowl or why there isn't a Dragon Kick slave for MNK. Slash Resist down is the least of their worries at the moment.

Everyone has a NIN anyways and every tank wants a NIN just like everyone wants a BRD/MCH.

Personally I feel nerfing WAR doesn't solve the issues of the other two and really just adds another class that will complain about its drawbacks. But what do I know right, I'm just a biased WAR main.

[Dante_V]

I think it is important to not look at things in a vacuum when assessing their relevance in actual play. Player ability will always supersede job choice and to assume all players are operating at 100% efficiency, which must be done in order to view these things in a vacuum, isn't very realistic. In the context of real raiding and limited player ability and specific job supply, I pick my team based on their ability to play their classes, not the total potential of the classes in a vacuum. Are there preferred setups? Absolutely. But with in the actual context and state of the game these are a luxury as opposed to certainty and should be analyzed as such. Within context it seems pretty obvious why the changes picked were chosen. Paladin needed a buff. TP issues are real as an OT for everyone besides Warrior. As OT, it is correct that both Paladin and DRK lose certain moves, in return they gain DPS. This is the dynamic of risk reward present in many aspects of the game and while it would be cool to Reprisal freely, I understand the dynamics they are trying to implement within this context which adds depth to strategy.

[Reynhart]

But that's kind of the thing with class synergy. Sure it's a DPS loss for the NIN personally but it sure as hell is better than the NIN not using it all for no reason.

Besides, I suppose it's only a DPS loss when there is a WAR to apply it, right ?
If a NIN ends in a DRK/PLD setup, he will apply Dancing Edge

But it would be easier if DE was part of their optimal in every situation.

[Fernosaur]

People are ignoring the most important fact of all.

Cure now has some use as a cross-class skill lmao. Because why waste 3000 MP to activate Divine Veil when you can do it with like 300? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Also, I think the TP issues with Paladin actually make it kind of a bigger team player. Sure, it kinda sucks that PLD needs a Bard, Machinist, Ninja or Asstrologian to maintain high DPS, but that's why party composition is important if you're aiming for progression. Btw, with the TP change to Fast Blade, TP will actually last much longer considering you use Fast Blade at the start of each and every one of your combos. I'd dare say it'll extend PLD's OT rotation non-stop for about half a minute or more. Considering Midas and probably the new priamls seem to be more mechanic heavy, I don't think TP will be an issue for Paladin at all during 3.2 and onward. Also, the damage boost to Shield Oath, on top of the enmity boost to both the Oath and Savage Blade means that PLD will have an easier time building up on initial enmity. Chin up! The changes are good and solve what was needed if you think about it!

[Grey_D94]

Personally, I love cover and wish it were more useful. But I think that would require making it cross class able so all tracks have it.

Cover is an awesome skill, really. But it needs to cover for magic damage as well if it intends to get used more, in my opinion. Range is debatable, if only because people have a bad habit of running instead of staying in one place while that glowing tether protects them. For this purpose, I imagine it gets either more or less use in the raid scene, where statics tend to know each other's moves better than the typical duty finder.

But cross classing it? It's a PLD skill, not a GLD skill, and Paladins are typically portrayed as guardians over others, if little else. The Cover skill is a mainstay and distinguishing feature for Paladins over the course of the games and many other settings. And it's a wonderful skill, allowing the PLD to take some of the heat from the MT without making them lose enmity.

[karateorangutang]

People are ignoring the most important fact of all.

Cure now has some use as a cross-class skill lmao. Because why waste 3000 MP to activate Divine Veil when you can do it with like 300? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

While this is true... it's also 2 GCD's with a cast time to activate a single cooldown. Unless content does so much aoe damage that this is useful... its kinda wonky at best. That being said fracture is pretty much garbage now, so I guess you could throw cure in there.

Not to discount the PLD buffs. It's a step in the right direction.

But cross classing it? It's a PLD skill, not a GLD skill, and Paladins are typically portrayed as guardians over others, if little else. The Cover skill is a mainstay and distinguishing feature for Paladins over the course of the games and many other settings. And it's a wonderful skill, allowing the PLD to take some of the heat from the MT without making them lose enmity.

I think that what the first post here was about if the mechanics of a fight required it then it would need to be available to all tanks as it would then be a fight mechanic and not just a class mechanic, ala provoke.

correction: job mechanic