New Prelim Tank updates

[Aaliyahrose]

The manipulator would like a word with you.

Also, best defensive tank ONLY works if you get a noticeable bonus from all that defence.

Which currently, you do not.

It's quite noticeable when its not used on bosses that use their ultimate enrage ability halfway through the fight. Timing it with raid wide AOE damage that is not the soft enrage makes or breaks PLD utility. Your healers will thank you for using something like Divine Veil stops 2-3 members from dying with ~100 HP left. Clemency and Cover work the same way. You need foresight of when things will happen to protect your DPS members from dying.

[Sarcatica]

The strength Down debuff needs to be up at all times anyway even in OT stance

Not true at all.

[TouchandFeel]

Generally liking the tank changes and I'm glad PLD is finally getting some love, especially with some buffs to their utility skills.

Things that I think could have maybe even should have in some cases been done.

DRK
- Decrease to Grit activation MP cost (not a whole lot, just a smidge)
- "Fixes" to Living Dead: Better/actual visual messaging for the transition to Walking Dead (my main issue with the ability), maybe making it so healing the DRK doesn't remove the WD buff with maybe a reduced duration (-2 seconds?) for balance.
- Some way to use Reprisal or at least it's debuff as OT (DRK has the weakest raid utility by far).

PLD
- Cover: works on all damage types and has a longer range.
- Shield Swipe: a different or additional debuff that has more raid utility.
- Divine Veil: Better visual messaging for the application of the buff.

WAR
- Still a bit too good compared to the other tanks, other tanks either need a few more buffs to strengthen their own niche of raid utility or WAR needs to get some slight nerfs or adjustments to compensate.

Overall though the TP fixes, the PLD buffs and the Oath/Grit tweaks bring the tank classes or at least DRK and PLD much closer together which is great.

@Syzygian
I really like the idea of having Sole Survivor have a different effect out of Grit where it can be cast on a friendly as a refresh, gives DRK some much needed party/raid utility.

[Februs]

Well ... I'm not going to say that the changes are bad (they are definitely good), but they are not enough.

I'm very happy that Oaths do not cancel combos anymore (though they really should have also been made oGCD to boost total potency), but SwO is still next to useless. As things are now, the biggest benefit to being in SwO is not having the dmg reduction from ShO. They way things will be after the patch, the biggest benefit to SwO is still not being in ShO. Pld's get that benefit by simply dropping ShO. There's no real incentive actually activate SwO (+50 potency on auto attacks... yay....) over just dropping ShO. Regardless, I can live with it it.

My bigger concern is with Tp management. Reducing the Tp cost of a couple of Pld moves is not going to save their TP from flat-lining in longer fights, especially with constantly increasing skill speeds. They've done this before, and it did not work. Pld's just do not have enough oGCD's to sustain their Tp. I'm gonna give this the benefit of the doubt, but I have a feeling that Pld's will still be red-lining their Tp, especially by the end of the 3.0's life cycle.

I'm also a little off put by the ability adjustments (more by which moves they picked, rather than what they changed). Clemency is fine. 2 seconds is a nice change. Divine Veil is a fix, because it should really have always been like that ... Cover? Tempered Will? If anything, I would say that those two moves were in much greater need for adjustments for FAR longer than Clem and DV. TW is almost NEVER used in any fights in the entire game. When SE said they were making move adjustments, I thought that TW would, at the very least, have made the list.

[Shurrikhan]

Well ... I'm not going to say that the changes are bad (they are definitely good), but they are not enough.

I'm very happy that Oaths do not cancel combos anymore (though they really should have also been made oGCD to boost total potency), but SwO is still next to useless. As things are now, the biggest benefit to being in SwO is not having the dmg reduction from ShO. They way things will be after the patch, the biggest benefit to SwO is still not being in ShO. Pld's get that benefit by simply dropping ShO. There's no real incentive actually activate SwO (+50 potency on auto attacks... yay....) over just dropping ShO. Regardless, I can live with it it.

My bigger concern is with Tp management. Reducing the Tp cost of a couple of Pld moves is not going to save their TP from flat-lining in longer fights, especially with constantly increasing skill speeds. They've done this before, and it did not work. Pld's just do not have enough oGCD's to sustain their Tp. I'm gonna give this the benefit of the doubt, but I have a feeling that Pld's will still be red-lining their Tp, especially by the end of the 3.0's life cycle.

I'm also a little off put by the ability adjustments (more by which moves they picked, rather than what they changed). Clemency is fine. 2 seconds is a nice change. Divine Veil is a fix, because it should really have always been like that ... Cover? Tempered Will? If anything, I would say that those two moves were in much greater need for adjustments for FAR longer than Clem and DV. TW is almost NEVER used in any fights in the entire game. When SE said they were making move adjustments, I thought that TW would, at the very least, have made the list.

To be honest, the auto-attack bonus is pretty hefty to overall single-target dps. Larger even than Deliverance at full stacks. It just feels like crap.

That middle part is why Skill Speed without changing the TP tick rate to 50 per GCD has always seemed an oversight to me. Granted, with so many TP cost reductions across the board, I don't even feel like I'd have to Paeon anymore. I'd just have the NIN goad the Monk and call it a day. Maybe make the PLD Clemency for his TP. /shrug.

Agreed completely on Cover and Tempered Will. Even just the ability to toggle/cancel the link or properly mitigate the transferred damage or interrupt-proofing on TW would be a godsend.

[Februs]

To be honest, the auto-attack bonus is pretty hefty to overall single-target dps. Larger even than Deliverance at full stacks. It just feels like crap.

You just outlined the problem with it right there. The fact is that it is only a Dps gain on single targets. In any circumstance in which there is more than one, your auto-attack is essentially useless. Personally, I was hoping to see it adjusted for TP management. Something along the lines of swapping to SwO grants additional Tp for each auto attack, while increasing overall skill speed.

That middle part is why Skill Speed without changing the TP tick rate to 50 per GCD has always seemed an oversight to me. Granted, with so many TP cost reductions across the board, I don't even feel like I'd have to Paeon anymore. I'd just have the NIN goad the Monk and call it a day. Maybe make the PLD Clemency for his TP. /shrug.

That's the same problem that we have now. The only way for a Pld to actually sustain their TP over the course of a fight is to actively sabotage their own Dps by not maintaining their attack. That's garbage. Clemency is great and all, but Pld's should not have to use it when they don't have to use it. It should be used for utility, not as a stop-gap in our TP draw.

Agreed completely on Cover and Tempered Will. Even just the ability to toggle/cancel the link or properly mitigate the transferred damage or interrupt-proofing on TW would be a godsend.

I would have even taken an esuna effect. ANYTHING would have been better than the way it is now.

[Shurrikhan]

You just outlined the problem with it right there. The fact is that it is only a Dps gain on single targets. In any circumstance in which there is more than one, your auto-attack is essentially useless. Personally, I was hoping to see it adjusted for TP management. Something along the lines of swapping to SwO grants additional Tp for each auto attack, while increasing overall skill speed.

Adjustments in this regard would be pretty great, but would do nothing for Shield Oath, and would make PLD even more dependent on high attack rate swords. Partly why I'd be fine with it being changed to a plain damage increase, as boring as that'd be. At least then it'd do everything every other tank stance does, rather than perpetuating their lack of enmity margin/sustain, with zero effect on multi-target situations.

That's the same problem that we have now. The only way for a Pld to actually sustain their TP over the course of a fight is to actively sabotage their own Dps by not maintaining their attack. That's garbage. Clemency is great and all, but Pld's should not have to use it when they don't have to use it. It should be used for utility, not as a stop-gap in our TP draw.

Merely (half) joking. If only because I have survived so much with seemingly disconnected healers on the virtue of Clemency alone, (e.g. soloing Thordan's cleave, stomp, cleave just with Foresight, Shelltron, and two prepped Clems, in i200 pure Str) I've gotten used to telling PLDs to use it if they're at 0 TP and everyone else is over 400. Since the TP changes have been so broad, it just seems like PLD and Monk alone are ever going to need TP help. If the AST can cover them, by Bard can just keep Foeing / shooting.

I would have even taken an esuna effect. ANYTHING would have been better than the way it is now.

Esuna would be damn nice, or at least have it remove and prevent ALL enfeeblements but stun/petrify (bind, heavy, slow, paralysis, draw-ins, knockbacks, on-action damage taken). Would also just be great if Cover were more often able to prevent any status effects from being applied to the target (without being transferred to yourself) by nature of 0 damage being taken.

[Syzygian]

I've never had a problem with Reprisal needing a Parry. Its a *reprisal* after all. But DRK needs something else to make it a competitive OT other than close-to-WAR DPS and a not-unique-to-the-job-debuff.

PLD at keeps all of its utility in either role with Shield Swipe being the only thing truly lost.

[TouchandFeel]

I've never had a problem with Reprisal needing a Parry. Its a *reprisal* after all. But DRK needs something else to make it a competitive OT other than close-to-WAR DPS and a not-unique-to-the-job-debuff.

While I understand the concept of the ability and how what it currently does makes sense with the name, the problem is that it (and Shield Swipe for PLD) is too locked behind MTing and doubly so when the debuff that Reprisal brings is/could be huge for raid utility which many of us agree DRK really needs.

While it would be requiring less attachment to the name, I still think making it so that you can DA+Reprisal or Parry proc+Reprisal would potentially be the simplest solution to making Reprisal more useful.

Being able to apply the Reprisal debuff as OT plus something like the Sole Survivor MP refresh idea you presented earlier (one debuff and one buff) would do wonders to for DRK OT utility.

[Aaliyahrose]

While I understand the concept of the ability and how what it currently does makes sense with the name, the problem is that it (and Shield Swipe for PLD) is too locked behind MTing and doubly so when the debuff that Reprisal brings is/could be huge for raid utility which many of us agree DRK really needs.

While it would be requiring less attachment to the name, I still think making it so that you can DA+Reprisal or Parry proc+Reprisal would potentially be the simplest solution to making Reprisal more useful.

Well...As OT, you could always be a daredevil and attempt to Dark Dance Parry a cleave from a boss to get a Reprisal debuff.

DA+Reprisal would be nice to see. Maybe grants 10% damage buff along with the 10% reduced damage already given to the boss.