Why are low standards for dps acceptable?

[Jynx]

I also wanted to point out the hilarious circular arguments aren't adding to the discussion. Neither side is wrong but as it stands people are allowed to play however they want. Your feelings and expectations be damned. But do continue to argue against the symptoms rather than discuss the cure.

[Tanathya]

I also wanted to point out the hilarious circular arguments aren't adding to the discussion. Neither side is wrong but as it stands people are allowed to play however they want. Your feelings and expectations be damned. But do continue to argue against the symptoms rather than discuss the cure.

I've already discussed the cure, which is to encourage everyone to do their best, and to stop this "DF is for lulz" mentality. As long as people excuse themselves, that ain't gonna end.

[Jynx]

I've already discussed the cure, which is to encourage everyone to do their best, and to stop this "DF is for lulz" mentality. As long as people excuse themselves, that ain't gonna end.

Again your trying to treat the symptoms of a larger problem. You "encouraging" best play does nothing.

Me shouting to the rooftops that we should all hold hands does not make peace on earth. Action needs to be taken and as we lack the power to take action we must point our attention away from the individuals who your words fall on deaf ears and focus on those who have the power to make real changes.

The developers.

People can and will continue to slack in every role in the duty finder because they have no incentives to do otherwise. These types of people can't be reasoned with so your wasting your effort even trying.

Your "Cure" can do nothing. It's not a cure it's trying to wish the problem away.

[Tanathya]

Again your trying to treat the symptoms of a larger problem. You "encouraging" best play does nothing.

But I did try to discuss the cure. It's not up to me, and me alone. I don't expect any change of behaviour, I'm not nearly as naive as to think that my words will have an impact, but you're passively telling us to discuss the cure, and that's what I have tried and, to a larger extent, did.

[Nalien]

Again your trying to treat the symptoms of a larger problem. You "encouraging" best play does nothing.

The larger problem is that the fourth party slot is utterly wasted. The way this game is balanced, you can very often find yourself clearing content without people. Dungeons do not require two DPS IMO, they can easily be cleared with one. Having two, however, just gives us a situation where one can slack off and just get carried through...

Kind of wish they'd just give us a Support role already... There would be less room for slackers then, the Tank would have to be tanking, the Healer healing, the DPS DPSing and the Support supporting, there would be no room for a second DPS to half-ass their way through the game. Arguably this falls apart when we get to Trials and Raids, since we start stacking roles in those, but I'd say by that point the problem would have been fixed. Nobody would be able to get through the game slacking in their role, every DPS will have to DPS properly or they wont be clearing dungeons, because they're the only real DPS and they wont have another DPS to carry them. They'll simply never even get to Trials and Raids without doing their Job properly.

Don't even get me started on the wealth of new encounter types we could even see with a dedicated Support role... Crowd control, a thing? In XIV?! One can dream... A Support role is seriously something they should have been working on for a long time now, it adds plenty to the game and fixes many of the current issues. Would we have a half-assed Bow-mage if Bard was instead turned into an actual Support Job? I don't think so. The issue was always that Bard was the only Job to really fit the role, but they could easily have corrected that with Heavensward. Turn Bard into a real Bard, make Astrologian a Support rather than Healer, bam, two Support Jobs. Not enough? Well, we only ever had two Tanks and Healers for A Realm Reborns run...

[RyuSaarva]

well you don't need tanks either so just use 4 healers?

[Immut]

well you don't need tanks either so just use 4 healers?

you don't need healers. just do it with 4 warriors.

[Odett]

I also wanted to point out the hilarious circular arguments aren't adding to the discussion. Neither side is wrong but as it stands people are allowed to play however they want. Your feelings and expectations be damned. But do continue to argue against the symptoms rather than discuss the cure.

The best cure would be to go back and instill actual DPS races in max-level dungeons like they used to. Remember the bees in the original AK? Remember when 2.1 dropped and all of the new dungeons had DPS races? Remember the first boss of Copperbell HM, where you had to kill it before the entire bridge was covered in fire, and the urgency of killing the Bomb because it would wipe the group if it exploded. Remember having to kill the last boss before running out of rocks to feed the worm with? There was also Haukke HM, where in the first boss, having low DPS would eventually cause the group to be swarmed by skeleton ads, and then have the giant skeleton spawn and wreck the group with its AoE stomp attack. The last boss of Haukke HM required you to burn the ads FAST, or it was a wipe. The first boss of Pharos Sirius was a total nightmare if you had mouthbreathing DPS that couldn't kill ads, and the Zu was the same, just like Siren, where not killing the pirate ads was total chaos.

The majority of those mechanics now have been either heavily nerfed, or completely removed. People complained that casual content was "too hard", the devs were dumb enough to listen, and after that, all we got after that, and still to this day, are dungeons were you could use random skills and still win. The only thing that playing well rewards you with in casual content now is a faster run, but I guess people somehow still enjoy 40+ minute runs of the dungeons we've been spamming every day since November. Purposely playing like crap because "I don't have to do better" is fine if you're playing a single player game, but if you're playing with others, where your laziness directly affects your group members, it's just plain selfish. The "cure" to these problems would be to actually give responsibility back to DPS players in four person dungeons, and maybe then when they learn how to play their job, they'll stop wiping at Bismarck EX with full ilv210 gear.