Why are low standards for dps acceptable?

[Jynx]

Why should we form groups. DF should be serious. Give me a reason why it's acceptable to perform poorly with unknown people?

Who are you trying to convince us or the thousands of players who don't care what you think of their play style good or bad?

The crux of the issue is that you are going into content willingly accepting you will be seeing anywhere from 1-7 random members who come from all walks of life and game play style. This is the contract you sign going in, nothing more, nothing less.

Should you want for great members who all do their job to expectation perhaps even above and beyond? Sure that's a great outlook.
Should you expect everyone to play to your standard all the time? No. That's unrealistic.

Should that crummy DPS comform to your will? Why should he, your not willing to conform to his and you both stand at a stalemate. The option to leave or initiate vote-kick is your two options of recourse in this situation and moving forward choosing who your party with gives you full control over expectations and social accountability for any content. The issue is the lack of urgency and overall apathy towards the subject. Your not going to get anywhere just expecting people to do as you say.

Speak your voice to the people who enable this behavior rather than the practitioners, get at SE about their lack of encouragment and just lack outright of...

- Proper Party play
- Teaching players mechanics as they level
- Holding players accountable for their actions
- Encouraging preformed activities (The entire DF runs counter to this as well as the bonus system, we are in turn encouraged to run with random people for a bonus to reinforce the solo style of gameplay)
- Lack of fostering community with a heavy emphasis on instant gratification content requiring little to no outside assistance.

It's allot to swallow and process but the entire games foundation only encourages people to act this way and sure you can be mad at the people who abuse the system but you should also be as mad at the people who push the system that does nothing but encourage it.

The people who play Ice Mage should be the least of our worries. Instead of making whiny threads with baseless attention grabbing titles (As debunked by logic it's not just DPS who have low standards, nor is anyone being a slacker really "Acceptable") We should be making well formulated suggestions to SE on how to counter this environment of toxicity and encourage accountability and community building.

Be the bigger person and rise ABOVE the situation and do your damndest to rectify the base problem instead of trying to systematically root out the individual problem cases.

[Vehementi]

Why should we form groups.DF should be serious.Give me a reason why its acceptable to perform poorly with unknown people?Saying because they are unknown is rude & makes you a jerk.And noone asks for the perfection,we ask to give it you max by using your toolkit,& to be open for advice.

Because you will always be at the mercy of RNG pairings no matter what. For better or worse that's what you get from pugging. You don't like those in pug groups don't pug.
Random grouping serious?
Well if trash is already dieing fast enough or too fast to keep stuff off cooldown for the upcoming boss fight. Why blow your heaviest hitters?
'Don't want perfection but want 100% your best...' You are reading what you are typing right? At this point I can't tell if you're sarcastic or not.
The person in question did change their rotation. So they were open to advice. OP admits this. Yet still acting like an ass and risked getting their party killed just to fluff their epeen.

[Odett]

Because you will always be at the mercy of RNG pairings no matter what. For better or worse that's what you get from pugging. You don't like those in pug groups don't pug.

That's what the kick function is for

Well if trash is already dieing fast enough or too fast to keep stuff off cooldown for the upcoming boss fight. Why blow your heaviest hitters?

You're misunderstanding this a bit. We're not talking about saving skills like Raging Strikes, or Dragonfire Dive for a boss fight. There's a difference between holding off on using those on a trash pack that's about to die and not using your skills that you get while leveling.

'Don't want perfection but want 100% your best...' You are reading what you are typing right? At this point I can't tell if you're sarcastic or not.

There is a world of a difference between min-maxing and using all your skills. The least that is required of your job is that you use your skills. It says here that you're a level 40 arcanist. You, for example, would not ignore your DoTs and just Ruin spam.

I agree that it's good that they changed their rotation, but if you get defensive when someone asks you why you're not using a skill like Enochian, that redefines your entire rotation, you need to get your attitude checked.

[Reisui]

snip

I was not talking about the BLM here, but in general. Everyone should be using his available tools and be open to advice, I'm also still learning stuff.
And no being perfect and give it your 100% are not the same.

As for why I pug? I pug since I have different play time than most of my friends, and we don't always need to do everything together.

Also, I loved to be paired up with RNG players, it's a good way to learn and interact with people, even if it's short.

Again DF should be taken seriously, you do it to get a random group to do the duty, not to mess around and be a burden.

[Tanathya]

All I got from people like the OP in this thread are "WAAAAHHHH I can't stand long ques so I go as tank or healer to get in more groups. Now I'm grouped with someone not as good as me and playing the class I'd rather be playing WAAAHHHH. I'm better, my epeen sails across the stars themselves!"

You want perfect groups and everyone on the same page? Stop pugging and form your own groups with people you know.

Or maybe let's not expect to get carried as a general rule. How rude.

[Tanathya]

You want perfect groups and everyone on the same page? Stop pugging and form your own groups with people you know.

Actually, why don't YOU form a group with those you know if you want to laze around? Why are you blaming US just because we want everyone to pull their own weight to the best of their capabilities? No, just no and you're wrong no matter how you look at it.
You can have a laugh and play however the hell you want with your friends, but try and do that with random, unknown people, and you'd be so rude you would not believe it. Which is the case.

[Kuwagami]

The very fact this so called warrior can can output same dps as your avarage ranged dps, makes this so called dps role total nonsense. My mind will never grasp this illogicality. If im labeled as DPS i want to have a capability to outdps tank/healer 5fold with no extra strain on my part when we fill our roles exclusively and 7fold when im expert at my role

Agree. But the game isn't designed that way, and DPs only have 20% more damage than tanks (in full OT situation) here.

Anyway active combat healing in general imho is relic of dice throwing tabletop games that at one point need to be eliminated in future. Because once full immersion gaming becomes reality (who knows how far in future it will happen) i cannot laugh strong enough at most laziest ever job that is healers - hystericaly blabing some incantation and waving some oddly shaped cane/stick. Fantasy or not, but healing as number jugling on hp bar is the biggest flaw in rpg logic, or rather it is the one role that was created solely to instill the sense of fighting in onedimensional vector of heroism.

Healing is NOT the laziest job around. That aside, what is the difference between a healer casting and a mage casting, apart the fact that the chants don't have the same effect ?
(not to mention, good luck doing anything as a mage if you don't have someone backing you up. Chanting while walking is the least credible thing ever)

A-RPGs all have an over-reliance on potions and stuff like that, negating team work most of the time, because team mates just aren't needed. I'll take active healing 100% of the time.

Speak your voice to the people who enable this behavior rather than the practitioners, get at SE about their lack of encouragment and just lack outright of...

- Proper Party play
- Teaching players mechanics as they level
- Holding players accountable for their actions
- Encouraging preformed activities (The entire DF runs counter to this as well as the bonus system, we are in turn encouraged to run with random people for a bonus to reinforce the solo style of gameplay)
- Lack of fostering community with a heavy emphasis on instant gratification content requiring little to no outside assistance.

It's allot to swallow and process but the entire games foundation only encourages people to act this way and sure you can be mad at the people who abuse the system but you should also be as mad at the people who push the system that does nothing but encourage it.

There are a few options possible, but I largely doubt SE would ever put them in game because that would go against what they did so far :

- Have a parser in game. A real one.
- Subsequently, allow us to judge people on their performance. JP people do their best not only because it's their culture, but also because they don't want to end up in the "do not ever play with this guy" lists. While I do not approve the process (too easily abused and do not really account for personnal progression), the fact is that it works. By allowing us to judge the performance of the other people (still ban harassment, but not for simple facts like "you are not doing the best you could here") it would encourage to strive for better results individually.
- Favor the grouping inside a server rather than cross-server. Not only it encourages to do your best (the people you play with aren't strangers you'll never ever meet again), but it also upgrades the community as a whole in the servers. And eases group creation later by creating networks.
- Block tiers of content behind skill gates. Use the Training Halls for that. Can't beat level 5 ? Can't access Thordan Ex, you'll be a burden. Plain, simple. Won't prevent people to slack, but will prevent people who just can't do it to hinder the others. And thus they'll want to improve to be able to go in the content, and they will TRAIN. That's what a Training Hall is for, right ?
- Alternatively, improve the skill baseline to clear content so that people can't breeze through content with 40% of their job's possibilities.

Of course none of this is perfect, and can be abused, and whatnot, but it would show a will to improve the skills of the players, instead of the "huh ? You aren't good enough for Alexander savage ? How is that ?" that we got.

'Don't want perfection but want 100% your best...' You are reading what you are typing right?

Just wanted to say that "one's best" isn't "perfection". Everyone has a margin of progression to reach perfection, even when they do their current best.

[Vehementi]

~snip~

*snerk*
Considering as a summoner half my groups have me switching to my tank pet to save us from wipes or me switching to spamming Physick...
I do what I'm expected of my class in DF but at the same time I realize this is a Pick Up Group. Not a Raid Guild Hardcore group that has everyone's cell phones. So I don't rage on the healer not using Eos or the tank not flashing.
I get the dungeon done, roll for my class' loot n' leave.

Neither side is wrong ~snipitty~

I'm bored waiting for my next que dunno everyone else's excuse is. I'd hope the same.

I hope they aren't like the OP and arguing while fighting and getting their group killed.

Honestly, I blame the commendation system. Most seem to do pity commendations or just randomly click. If you hate the person tanking, healing or dpsing don't up their reputation at the end. Eventually they wont get in groups with you.

[Ashkendor]

Honestly, I blame the commendation system. Most seem to do pity commendations or just randomly click. If you hate the person tanking, healing or dpsing don't up their reputation at the end. Eventually they wont get in groups with you.

What? What do commendations have to do with whether or not a rando ends up with me more than once in DF?

[Kuwagami]

What? What do commendations have to do with whether or not a rando ends up with me more than once in DF?

Nothing. The commendation system is just an other e-peen factor with no other consequences than having glamour rewards.

Would be pretty fun to have a PF "do not join if you have less than 2500 commendations".