Why are low standards for dps acceptable?

[TheUltimateSeph]

Oh, so that's why. I now understand all your posts and where you're coming from: like a lot of people, you don't understand what a DPS job is and what is their role. It's not that you have low standards, it's that you don't have any regarding that role.

Killing enemies -and thus making progress in a task by doing so- is not the job of the DPS, it's the one of the whole group itself. DPS are here to ensure that enemies are killed as fast as possible, and in a specific way/order if need be.
This is the "holy trinity" concept in its basic form: the tank keeps taking and mitigating the incoming damage in order to allow the DPS to kill the enemies as fast as possible, while the healer keeps the tank (and the DPS, but mostly the tank) alive.
If "killing things as fast as possible" wasn't the core role of DPS, then, by your logic, they would absolutly don't matter and you could in theory do dungeons with only a Healer and a Tank.

As I said, if a DPS is going too slow, then it makes the party lose time the same way a Healer not healing would, or a Tank not mitigating enough, ending up killing the party.


If you don't understand what is the true role of a DPS job, then you cannot understand why people in this thread are arguing with you against your view on the matter.

Actually right now I really don't understand you or people like you and I doubt I ever will. You quoted me, I clearly said if a dps can kill the enemies with their basic rotation go for it. How is this not understanding what a dps role is? They kill stuff, that's what I said. I don't expect anyone to agree with me. They are the main damage dealers in a dungeon. I really don't know where you got this "don't understand what a dps job is" bit from. It's cool though, I'm pretty much done with this thread anyway. But keep it up guys, reach that 200 page goal I believe in you.

The problem here is that by design, DPS also have 0 responsibilities outside of cutting edge content. There's no DPS checks tight enough to actually necessitate high DPS, which is why it's very common to see people set up odd parties with one tank and 3 healers, 3 tanks and 1 healer, or even just 4 tanks precisely because DPS are largely irrelevant, even when dealing high damage due to how little time is actually saved by bringing along the 2 DPS.

I could kiss you <3

[Archaell]

Actually right now I really don't understand you or people like you and I doubt I ever will. You quoted me, I clearly said if a dps can kill the enemies with their basic rotation go for it. How is this not understanding what a dps role is? They kill stuff, that's what I said. I don't expect anyone to agree with me. They are should be the main damage dealers in a dungeon. I really don't know where you got this "don't understand what a dps job is" bit from. It's cool though, I'm pretty much done with this thread anyway. But keep it up guys, reach that 200 page goal I believe in you.

Fixed that for you.

You would be surprised how often the tank or healer are the main damage source in DF runs.

[AnaviAnael]

Fixed that for you.

You would be surprised how often the tank or healer are the main damage source in DF runs.

I out DPSed a monk once on my AST! ... Ok, it was more than once. ; ;

[Vehementi]

All I got from people like the OP in this thread are "WAAAAHHHH I can't stand long ques so I go as tank or healer to get in more groups. Now I'm grouped with someone not as good as me and playing the class I'd rather be playing WAAAHHHH. I'm better, my epeen sails across the stars themselves!"

You want perfect groups and everyone on the same page? Stop pugging and form your own groups with people you know.

[Ninster]

To answer the topic directly, it's because of threads like this:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...1-Vote-Dismiss

and this:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...e-good-kind%29

Why do well when you get yelled at and/or kicked anyway?

[gzuscry]

The very fact this so called warrior can can output same dps as your avarage ranged dps, makes this so called dps role total nonsense. My mind will never grasp this illogicality. If im labeled as DPS i want to have a capability to outdps tank/healer 5fold with no extra strain on my part when we fill our roles exclusively and 7fold when im expert at my role, this means tank will soak the damage 100% (no damage will ever reach dps or healer if tank is expert). Anyway active combat healing in general imho is relic of dice throwing tabletop games that at one point need to be eliminated in future. Because once full immersion gaming becomes reality (who knows how far in future it will happen) i cannot laugh strong enough at most laziest ever job that is healers - hystericaly blabing some incantation and waving some oddly shaped cane/stick. Fantasy or not, but healing as number jugling on hp bar is the biggest flaw in rpg logic, or rather it is the one role that was created solely to instill the sense of fighting in onedimensional vector of heroism.

[Reisui]

All I got from people like the OP in this thread are "WAAAAHHHH I can't stand long ques so I go as tank or healer to get in more groups. Now I'm grouped with someone not as good as me and playing the class I'd rather be playing WAAAHHHH. I'm better, my epeen sails across the stars themselves!"

You want perfect groups and everyone on the same page? Stop pugging and form your own groups with people you know.

Why should we form groups. DF should be serious. Give me a reason why it's acceptable to perform poorly with unknown people? And saying because they are unknown is rude and makes you a jerk.

And no-one asks for the perfection, we ask to give it you max by using your toolkit, and to be open for advice...

[Joe_Schmoe]

Why are low standards for dps acceptable?

• Because I'm running dungeons, not raids. Nothing high-stakes, unless these bosses have enrage timers that I'm not aware of.

• Because I'm not exactly the greatest DPSer either. It'd be hypocritical of me to hold people to expectations I couldn't meet myself.

• As a corollary to the previous entry I'm pretty new to this game, so if the other guy wants to be a leech that's fine. It just means I get more practice.

[Jynx]

Why should we form groups. DF should be serious. Give me a reason why it's acceptable to perform poorly with unknown people?

Who are you trying to convince us or the thousands of players who don't care what you think of their play style good or bad?

The crux of the issue is that you are going into content willingly accepting you will be seeing anywhere from 1-7 random members who come from all walks of life and game play style. This is the contract you sign going in, nothing more, nothing less.

Should you want for great members who all do their job to expectation perhaps even above and beyond? Sure that's a great outlook.
Should you expect everyone to play to your standard all the time? No. That's unrealistic.

Should that crummy DPS comform to your will? Why should he, your not willing to conform to his and you both stand at a stalemate. The option to leave or initiate vote-kick is your two options of recourse in this situation and moving forward choosing who your party with gives you full control over expectations and social accountability for any content. The issue is the lack of urgency and overall apathy towards the subject. Your not going to get anywhere just expecting people to do as you say.

Speak your voice to the people who enable this behavior rather than the practitioners, get at SE about their lack of encouragment and just lack outright of...

- Proper Party play
- Teaching players mechanics as they level
- Holding players accountable for their actions
- Encouraging preformed activities (The entire DF runs counter to this as well as the bonus system, we are in turn encouraged to run with random people for a bonus to reinforce the solo style of gameplay)
- Lack of fostering community with a heavy emphasis on instant gratification content requiring little to no outside assistance.

It's allot to swallow and process but the entire games foundation only encourages people to act this way and sure you can be mad at the people who abuse the system but you should also be as mad at the people who push the system that does nothing but encourage it.

The people who play Ice Mage should be the least of our worries. Instead of making whiny threads with baseless attention grabbing titles (As debunked by logic it's not just DPS who have low standards, nor is anyone being a slacker really "Acceptable") We should be making well formulated suggestions to SE on how to counter this environment of toxicity and encourage accountability and community building.

Be the bigger person and rise ABOVE the situation and do your damndest to rectify the base problem instead of trying to systematically root out the individual problem cases.

[Archaell]

The very fact this so called warrior can can output same dps as your avarage ranged dps, makes this so called dps role total nonsense. My mind will never grasp this illogicality.

The Warrior has to be pretty good or have a good healer. Also keep in mind that dpsing tank can decrease the damage of the healer.

Just because the difference in dps output between roles is smaller, it doesn't mean that the damage dealers do the same amount of damage. They just have to try h... they just have to try, to do more dps than tanks or healers.

I am pretty sure that a bad dps can still do more damage than the bad healer and bad tank. But tanks and healers usually try to do more than just healing/tanking so the damage dealers are also expected to do more than the minimum required to clear the content.

The downside of this smaller difference is that tanks and healers got the ability to carry bad damage dealers, which is one of the reasons why doing good job as the damage dealer doesn't matter that much.

Were the tank/healer dps nerfed by 75% the content clear times and failures would extremely increase, but maybe then the issue of poorly performing damage dealers would be more noticeable.