Why are low standards for dps acceptable?

[Tanathya]

You want perfect groups and everyone on the same page? Stop pugging and form your own groups with people you know.

Actually, why don't YOU form a group with those you know if you want to laze around? Why are you blaming US just because we want everyone to pull their own weight to the best of their capabilities? No, just no and you're wrong no matter how you look at it.
You can have a laugh and play however the hell you want with your friends, but try and do that with random, unknown people, and you'd be so rude you would not believe it. Which is the case.

[Kuwagami]

The very fact this so called warrior can can output same dps as your avarage ranged dps, makes this so called dps role total nonsense. My mind will never grasp this illogicality. If im labeled as DPS i want to have a capability to outdps tank/healer 5fold with no extra strain on my part when we fill our roles exclusively and 7fold when im expert at my role

Agree. But the game isn't designed that way, and DPs only have 20% more damage than tanks (in full OT situation) here.

Anyway active combat healing in general imho is relic of dice throwing tabletop games that at one point need to be eliminated in future. Because once full immersion gaming becomes reality (who knows how far in future it will happen) i cannot laugh strong enough at most laziest ever job that is healers - hystericaly blabing some incantation and waving some oddly shaped cane/stick. Fantasy or not, but healing as number jugling on hp bar is the biggest flaw in rpg logic, or rather it is the one role that was created solely to instill the sense of fighting in onedimensional vector of heroism.

Healing is NOT the laziest job around. That aside, what is the difference between a healer casting and a mage casting, apart the fact that the chants don't have the same effect ?
(not to mention, good luck doing anything as a mage if you don't have someone backing you up. Chanting while walking is the least credible thing ever)

A-RPGs all have an over-reliance on potions and stuff like that, negating team work most of the time, because team mates just aren't needed. I'll take active healing 100% of the time.

Speak your voice to the people who enable this behavior rather than the practitioners, get at SE about their lack of encouragment and just lack outright of...

- Proper Party play
- Teaching players mechanics as they level
- Holding players accountable for their actions
- Encouraging preformed activities (The entire DF runs counter to this as well as the bonus system, we are in turn encouraged to run with random people for a bonus to reinforce the solo style of gameplay)
- Lack of fostering community with a heavy emphasis on instant gratification content requiring little to no outside assistance.

It's allot to swallow and process but the entire games foundation only encourages people to act this way and sure you can be mad at the people who abuse the system but you should also be as mad at the people who push the system that does nothing but encourage it.

There are a few options possible, but I largely doubt SE would ever put them in game because that would go against what they did so far :

- Have a parser in game. A real one.
- Subsequently, allow us to judge people on their performance. JP people do their best not only because it's their culture, but also because they don't want to end up in the "do not ever play with this guy" lists. While I do not approve the process (too easily abused and do not really account for personnal progression), the fact is that it works. By allowing us to judge the performance of the other people (still ban harassment, but not for simple facts like "you are not doing the best you could here") it would encourage to strive for better results individually.
- Favor the grouping inside a server rather than cross-server. Not only it encourages to do your best (the people you play with aren't strangers you'll never ever meet again), but it also upgrades the community as a whole in the servers. And eases group creation later by creating networks.
- Block tiers of content behind skill gates. Use the Training Halls for that. Can't beat level 5 ? Can't access Thordan Ex, you'll be a burden. Plain, simple. Won't prevent people to slack, but will prevent people who just can't do it to hinder the others. And thus they'll want to improve to be able to go in the content, and they will TRAIN. That's what a Training Hall is for, right ?
- Alternatively, improve the skill baseline to clear content so that people can't breeze through content with 40% of their job's possibilities.

Of course none of this is perfect, and can be abused, and whatnot, but it would show a will to improve the skills of the players, instead of the "huh ? You aren't good enough for Alexander savage ? How is that ?" that we got.

'Don't want perfection but want 100% your best...' You are reading what you are typing right?

Just wanted to say that "one's best" isn't "perfection". Everyone has a margin of progression to reach perfection, even when they do their current best.

[Vehementi]

~snip~

*snerk*
Considering as a summoner half my groups have me switching to my tank pet to save us from wipes or me switching to spamming Physick...
I do what I'm expected of my class in DF but at the same time I realize this is a Pick Up Group. Not a Raid Guild Hardcore group that has everyone's cell phones. So I don't rage on the healer not using Eos or the tank not flashing.
I get the dungeon done, roll for my class' loot n' leave.

Neither side is wrong ~snipitty~

I'm bored waiting for my next que dunno everyone else's excuse is. I'd hope the same.

I hope they aren't like the OP and arguing while fighting and getting their group killed.

Honestly, I blame the commendation system. Most seem to do pity commendations or just randomly click. If you hate the person tanking, healing or dpsing don't up their reputation at the end. Eventually they wont get in groups with you.

[Ashkendor]

Honestly, I blame the commendation system. Most seem to do pity commendations or just randomly click. If you hate the person tanking, healing or dpsing don't up their reputation at the end. Eventually they wont get in groups with you.

What? What do commendations have to do with whether or not a rando ends up with me more than once in DF?

[Kuwagami]

What? What do commendations have to do with whether or not a rando ends up with me more than once in DF?

Nothing. The commendation system is just an other e-peen factor with no other consequences than having glamour rewards.

Would be pretty fun to have a PF "do not join if you have less than 2500 commendations".

[Vehementi]

What? What do commendations have to do with whether or not a rando ends up with me more than once in DF?

I was under the impression Commendation affected people much like an Elo rating system.

[Alistaire]

I was under the impression Commendation affected people much like an Elo rating system.

Nope. And the people who don't take well to suggestions certainly aren't going to change their ways because of the lack of commendations they get. Hell, it's bad enough a lot of bad players are getting commended by other bad players for being bad, reinforcing the problem.

[Archaell]

I was under the impression Commendation affected people much like an Elo rating system.

Even if they did, it would be still too much weak.

Let's put a player review sub-page on the lodestone character profile. That thing would be seriously hilarious to read as the enraged players would be more likely to post feedback.

I can almost see it: "This healer is piece of goobbue poop, he almost let me die three times while I was busy standing in the aoes. When I asked them to stop dpsing, they were so toxic and said that they might consider it if I could increase my dps by their own dps output. Be warned, I don't recommend teaming up with them!" :'D

[AnaviAnael]

*snerk*
Considering as a summoner half my groups have me switching to my tank pet to save us from wipes or me switching to spamming Physick...
I do what I'm expected of my class in DF but at the same time I realize this is a Pick Up Group. Not a Raid Guild Hardcore group that has everyone's cell phones. So I don't rage on the healer not using Eos or the tank not flashing.

That's pretty sad actually, I feel your pain though. Half the time my dots rip hate off of tanks too.

Honestly, I blame the commendation system. Most seem to do pity commendations or just randomly click. If you hate the person tanking, healing or dpsing don't up their reputation at the end. Eventually they wont get in groups with you.

Actually, most people don't commend. They get done and get the heck out of the dungeon.