Hardcore is not a dirty word

[PrettyPrincess]

Hardcore, along with Immersion, are both dirty words to me now. Jeez ~.~

[Celtodeno]

The problem is that HARD CORE in most eastern MMO's actually means an enormous waste of time...

Do you have 17 hours a day to put into push the same 8 button over and over and over again? (not REALLY hardcore)

Guitar Hero Dragon Force on Expert. (Hard Core)

If Hard core in MMO's could be redefined to mean exceptionally challenging regardless of time needed then I would say sure but the truth is that even the youngest of the original gaming generation no longer lives at home with the rents with nothing better to do with our time than push the same 8 button over and over for 10+ hours.

That should not what be defines the best of the best in any game.

[Dreamer]

I don't care about casual or hardcore, what I want is a game that has depth.

[KaiKatzchen]

Gonna say the same thing on this thread I said on the other... that's pretty much talks about the same thing but is much longer...

How many of these threads do we need... there are like two back to back about the same thing.

Hardcore, Casual, Easy Mode, Hard Mode, depending on the person these will all have different meanings. Whats hard for one person, is easy for another. Whats Casual for one person, is hardcore for another. Whats a challenge for one person is pie for another.

The game will be what it is, if people like it that's great. If people don't like it, well then that happens too. I've played many games I didn't end up liking. I just suck it up and either deal with it, or I leave.

[Jynx]

The word Hardcore is this weeks Immersion, get ready to see 12 more threads about it.

[Davorok]

All this talk of Hardcore, Immersion and Depth is gonna get someone banned...likely me since I have a dirty mind.

[zaviermhigo]

Want hardcore content for the game, but if any "gathering of people" is required it automatically turns into a time sink. With 8 people its not so bad, but theres always that one dick selfish person who takes forever to get to the event for no apparent reason other than he doesn't care anyway. Those people made a lot of content in XI way more of a time sink then it needed to be. Even in xiv it can take some time to gear our your character, but NOT THAT LONG of a time, those people are just chatting and chatting in ls chat, while not doing anything to get ready and you can tell!

[Charismatic]

I never argued that FFXI wasn't hardcore (which seemed to have sparked this). I was only laughing at Square-Enix being "known for" their hardcore games.
Of the many games that have come out of Squaresoft, Enix and Square-Enix very few of their games could be considered "hardcore" and they aren't exactly known for them.

FFXI ain't exactly the most popular Square game, nor is SaGa Frontier... basically their so-called hardcore games are the least popular ones in their library so saying they are known for them was pretty damned funny to me.

[Konachibi]

The word Hardcore is this weeks Immersion, get ready to see 12 more threads about it.

Coming up next week, 'fast-track' becomes the new buzzword because of airships and chocobos. Prepare your arguements!

[Invalice_Vangaurd]

here are just some of the features that made the game hardcore:

• Not for solo players.
• Hard to level.
• High learning curve.
• Ton of camping.
• Huge time investment needed.
• economy based on supply and demand which was then based on time invested into drop rates.

If you view those features as annoying and not "fun" then the games just not for you plain and simple. It dose not make it any less of a hardcore game just because you don't like those features.

And to the irony of your post you were combating popular belief with the most popular discredited definition site lol.

Sometimes it seems the only thing that makes for a 'hardcore player' is having no real-world responsibilities, which grants them large amounts of free-time, so they excel at time consuming games since they are able to spend all day logged on, and thus, feel superior to the rest of us 'casuals' such as myself who work full-time, go to school full-time, serve in the military, and devote time to friends and other hobbies. My apologies for thinking a 'hardcore game' should consist of activities that make you think, plan, and react, instead of merely filled with time consuming chores.

Not For Solo Players

Please tell me, how does being in a party make a game hardcore? You wanna know what the most hardcore part of my leveling was in XI-- it was soloing EM-VT mobs with PLD or THF while I waited for a party-- having optimized gear swaps for WS and buffs, utilizing status bolts, having the best subjobs for any given situation, always making sure shield/evade/parry were capped or as close to cap as possible, having good spell timing to keep buffs or shadows up, always having juice for refresh and potions for oh-shit situations, etc, etc. In comparison to being in a party, soloing felt much more 'hardcore' and skill oriented. And although I kept the same mentality when I was in parties, it wasn't nearly as necessary or rewarding-- except for maybe when DDs freaked out because the tank was doing more WS damage than they were. More often than not, at least some of the people in my party were pretty damn bad at the game, and we still usually got by just fine because other people made up for their lack of skill.

My point being, partying vs soloability has nothing to do with how difficult a game is. If you like to party that's great, but some of us would rather not, and it's ridiculous to think partying makes you more 'hardcore.' There should be options for people who want to party as well as solo, and both options should grant higher rewards based on how skillful the player is, instead of how much free-time they have.

Sitting around camping

Is not a sign of a hardcore game, but merely a time sink that those who have an abundance of free-time, or those who use bots, can benefit from.

Something to note here: time-consuming games will ALWAYS cause higher levels of bot usage. Just something to remember for all the people who complain about aspects of the game not taking long enough and then also complain about bots.

Huge Time Investment

See above.

Hard to level

This depends on how you define 'hard'-- as in skill oriented battle mechanics and exp acquisition methods vs. a simpler but very time consuming leveling model. Once again, I'm not sure how your abundance of free-time makes you more hardcore than me.

High Learning Curve

Like I said above, there were a lot of bad players during my time in XI, and parties still ran fine as long as better players picked up the slack. Regardless, even WoW has a more complex battle system than XI does, which makes it more difficult to master, and I'm guessing most of you 'hardcores' consider WoW a game for us casuals. When I say this, I'm speaking about high levels of performance. It is much easier to perform at your maximum potential in XI than it is in WoW.

My point being, if XI has a high learning curve, than what exactly would you consider a shallow learning curve? Why don't you explain in detail the complexities of XI, and I'll gladly explain to you how several other games, which you probably consider 'easy-mode' are more complex and harder to master, but simply less time consuming.

Economy Based on Drops

I had more gil in XI than I knew what to do with, and almost none of it was made off of rare drops. Most of it was made through either crafting HQs of high demand equipment or crafting consumables in bulk, and HQing was not based on time involvement, but knowing how the system worked, so you could meet HQ tier requirements, craft at the appropriate times, etc. I also had linkshell mates who were rich due to dysnthing, farming, or gathering common items, and sometimes crafting them into higher components, which didn't take much effort at all, but merely required knowledge about what sold well and what didn't.

In reality, the economy was based on gil farmers and gil sellers, that's REALLY what the economy was based on. Either way, I don't see how the broken economy of XI has anything to do with the game being hardcore. Once again, there are other games, which you probably consider casual, that have economies more complex and fluid than XI.

In short, I think your argument boils down to: I have lots of free time and casuals don't, therefore, I'm more hardcore than they are. I think hardcore is one of those words like spirituality, where people really have no clue what they're talking about when they use it.