Hardcore is not a dirty word

[Pandastirfry]

there are plenty of people who play a game, thoroughly enjoy it, and still hang out on the forums. Enjoyment = dead forums is a false correlation.

@ Seikninkuru

Again people are forgetting that FF11 pre WOTG and Abysea was hardcore, and successful in light of WoW which is the outlier.

and @ Charismatic

You categorize FF11 as casual? O.o i don't think you understand the terms hardcore or casual, which is pry the root of you not understanding my post.

I played FFXI from NA release and quit just after WotG...it wasn't hardcore, it was grindtastic, it was moderately successful and when WoW came out my server's pop went from 5,000~ avg at NA prime time to less than 2000~ avg at NA prime time and never rebounded by the time I quit

FFXI was the outlier...and I'm saying this as someone who enjoyed the game*


*well to be honest I liked goofing around with my LS mates the game itself was boring as sin.

[Bled]

I played FFXI from NA release and quit just after WotG...it wasn't hardcore, it was grindtastic, it was moderately successful and when WoW came out my server's pop went from 5,000~ avg at NA prime time to less than 2000~ avg at NA prime time and never rebounded by the time I quit

FFXI was the outlier...and I'm saying this as someone who enjoyed the game*


*well to be honest I liked goofing around with my LS mates the game itself was boring as sin.

I'm not understanding peoples confusion with the definition of a hardcore game.. a casual game is typically distinguished by their simple rules and lack of commitment required so in contrast a hardcore game would be the opposite. FF11 was not a casual game! why is that so hard to understand grind tastic or not it was still labeled as hardcore.

You can play any game casually or hardcore, I can play Hello Kitty Island Adventure hardcore yet the game would still be a casual game. What I'm talking about is the design and development of the game being hardcore and casual.

[Konachibi]

I'm not understanding peoples confusion with the definition of a hardcore game.. a casual game is typically distinguished by their simple rules and lack of commitment required so in contrast a hardcore game would be the opposite. FF11 was not a casual game! why is that so hard to understand grind tastic or not it was still labeled as hardcore.

You can play any game casually or hardcore, I can play Hello Kitty Island Adventure hardcore yet the game would still be a casual game. What I'm talking about is the design and development of the game being hardcore and casual.

So what you're after in FFXIV is a game that's very time consuming, difficult to learn initially and with a constantly upward-flowing learning curve?

[Bled]

So what you're after in FFXIV is a game that's very time consuming, difficult to learn initially and with a constantly upward-flowing learning curve?

What I'm after in FFXIV is a hardcore experience which involves time invested into the game to achieve monumental goals, which dose not hold your hand/point everything out to you with big arrows, and a steep learning curve that allows for competitiveness.

[Konachibi]

What I'm after in FFXIV is a hardcore experience which involves time invested into the game to achieve monumental goals, which dose not hold your hand/point everything out to you with big arrows, and a steep learning curve that allows for competitiveness.

Take up crafting.

Problem solved (b'.')b

[Gramul]

Like I said, it wasn't hardcore, sure it sucked the life from your bones and gave an illusion of depth, but in reality it was a tank and spank grind fest with time sinks in masquerading as content.

Yeah. Hardcore.
What's not to get?

Hardcore essentially just means more commitment required. That usually means time invested into learning increasingly complex game mechanics and having the patience to work with a leveling system. As long as a game is short, and or quick to play, it's casual friendly.

Skill required isn't necessarily related, as it's more of a byproduct of the time invested.

Honestly, I think there's room in this game for both core and casual content. However, casuals shouldn't get upset by something that takes a lot of time to do for a big reward and cores shouldn't complain that the game is too "easy".

[Pandastirfry]

Yeah. Hardcore.
What's not to get?

Hardcore essentially just means more commitment required. That usually means time invested into learning increasingly complex game mechanics and having the patience to work with a leveling system. As long as a game is short, and or quick to play, it's casual friendly.

Skill required isn't necessarily related, as it's more of a byproduct of the time invested.

Honestly, I think there's room in this game for both core and casual content. However, casuals shouldn't get upset by something that takes a lot of time to do for a big reward and cores shouldn't complain that the game is too "easy".

The point I'm trying to make here, is that FFXI didn't have complex game mechanics. What it had was bog-standard gameplay for a late '90's early '00's MMO, it was really no different from Ultima or Everquest, it was just set in Final Fantasy Millieu and had time sinks out the wazoo. most of the "FFXI was hardcore, FFXI was better...blah blah blah" is fueled largely by nostalgia, not anything actually concrete.

Time invested can be a component of a "hardcore" game, but in the case of XI, you put in a lot of work for very little reward. Drop rates were ridiculous (0 of 200 for the Monster Signa...wooo HARDCORE!!) and you spent so much time waiting, no not playing, literally sitting on your butt in Jeuno waiting for something...anything to happen.

and really I'm not complaining about something taking a lot of work or time to get done (ask me how many times I've killed Arthas in WoW...if you guessed 0 you'd be right) what I'm taking exception to is this rose colored glasses look to the sins of XI, there was no big reward at the end of those tunnels...it usually was an oncoming train of further grind

[Pandastirfry]

I'm not understanding peoples confusion with the definition of a hardcore game.. a casual game is typically distinguished by their simple rules and lack of commitment required so in contrast a hard core game would be the opposite. FF11 was not a casual game! why is that so hard to understand grind tastic or not it was still labeled as hardcore.

You are the first person I have ever heard label FFXI hardcore, I personally found it pretty dang easy, and I played what most people seem to think was the class that needed all sorts of skill, Bard, and I was mithra too boot, as I said in another thread, I routinely played drunk and no one ever knew.

a hardcore game is one that is easy to play difficult to master, FFXI was easy to play and easy to master...how hard was it to log on and wait...
wait for airships, wait for nm spawns, wait for ferries, wait for your party to finally form, wait for everyone to get the the camp, wait for everyone to finally stop arguing over which mobs to kill (why we always argued over this I'll never know, we all knew we'd be killing some form of crustacean), Kill one or two mobs, and oh look some one has to log cause it's dinner or something, and it's back to waiting...finally get fed up with the glacial pace of leveling and go do something else...which usually meant faking a D/C so I didn't have to give some lame excuse.

that's not hardcore...that's boring

[Bled]

You are the first person I have ever heard label FFXI hardcore, I personally found it pretty dang easy, and I played what most people seem to think was the class that needed all sorts of skill, Bard, and I was mithra too boot, as I said in another thread, I routinely played drunk and no one ever knew.

a hardcore game is one that is easy to play difficult to master, FFXI was easy to play and easy to master...how hard was it to log on and wait...
wait for airships, wait for nm spawns, wait for ferries, wait for your party to finally form, wait for everyone to get the the camp, wait for everyone to finally stop arguing over which mobs to kill (why we always argued over this I'll never know, we all knew we'd be killing some form of crustacean), Kill one or two mobs, and oh look some one has to log cause it's dinner or something, and it's back to waiting...finally get fed up with the glacial pace of leveling and go do something else...which usually meant faking a D/C so I didn't have to give some lame excuse.

that's not hardcore...that's boring

Stating that Final Fantasy 11 was not a hardcore game is much like stating Obama is not a liberal, you can pick out things that make him seam like a conservative yet he is in fact still a liberal.

are you new to the forums? cause popular belief here is FF11 was for hardcore gamers and FF14 is for casual.

[Pandastirfry]

Stating that Final Fantasy 11 was not a hardcore game is much like stating Obama is not a liberal, you can pick out things that make him seam like a conservative yet he is in fact still a liberal.

are you new to the forums? cause popular belief here is FF11 was for hardcore gamers and FF14 is for casual.

And it used to be popular opinion that disease was caused by evil spirits. what's your point?

FFXI was for hardcore gamers if by hard core you mean people like I used to be, no responsibilities and plenty of time (or really procrastinating on something I should have been doing, like my school work at the time, good golly I wonder what my GPA would have been if the scales had fallen from my eyes earlier) to sit around and stare at a screen hoping, oh hoping so hard, that you would be the ones to kill a particular HNM, that spawns once a week and you've had someone sitting there babysitting that spot the whole time, the strategy for which was soooo complex, Keep tank alive, beat on it till its HP reaches 0, just like every other MMO.

Like I said, it wasn't hardcore, sure it sucked the life from your bones and gave an illusion of depth, but in reality it was a tank and spank grind fest with time sinks in masquerading as content.