Why vertical progression is poorly implemented

[CyrilLucifer]

I'll thank Yoshi & Co. that I never need to keep equipment that long based on minimal stats for 2 or 3 abilities.

I think we can agree to disagree with that. I highly prefer having an item I can use for a very long time than one I toss in a few months because its outdated and only keep it for glamour. The process of earning gear and then making it irrelevant soon after is not particularly rewarding for me.

[Cynric]

I think we can agree to disagree with that. I highly prefer having an item I can use for a very long time than one I toss in a few months because its outdated and only keep it for glamour. The process of earning gear and then making it irrelevant soon after is not particularly rewarding for me.

If something is that overpowered that it can last for years then what is the point in developing new gear at all?

You either make later gear irrelevant , or make current gear irrelevant.

If something increased Cure by 10% or increased Halone enmity by some extent. But it wasn't as good as Mind or Strength do you think anyone would use it? If something increased the damage of a skill vastly over the value of a main stat like Strength , then what would be the point in Strength?

FFXIV isn't designed for what you guys are suggesting.

I'll agree that the way progression currently works isn't the best. But neither is horizontal progression. Nothing is perfect and exchanging one way for the other wouldn't solve anything.

[Ultimatecalibur]

This is purely anecdotal, but in my experience, ever since I fell out of raiding, there has been no pressure to keep my gear ahead of the curve. The predictability of progression reduces my motivation for getting upgrades in the first place, knowing that a superior version can be obtained for less effort in a future patch. This essentially put me in a backslide to the lower end of the gear spectrum where I benefit more from the numerous catch up options that are available.

Once I unlock the current tier of EX dungeons (I know, I'm pretty far behind), I'd have 4 sources to easily upgrade my 3.0 gear, with a very straightforward, intuitive sense of progression: new dungeon drops (185), Alex NM (190), Eso's (200), and Void ark (200-210). This is in pretty stark contrast to players that have kept up with the curve, who have played out Alex NM for 190 drops and geared out in Eso's by the time 3.1 landed. Their gear has already obsolesced the i185 dungeon drops and most of Void Ark. It confuses me that there is a nice, clean ladder of progression, but it's only there every other patch, and it's possible to outgear that progression before it even hits.

3.0 had a similar natural endgame gear progression prior to the introduction of the Eso/Savage gear in 3.05. You start at i145/i148/i150, ran the level 60 dungeons for Valarian (i160) and Law (i170), did hunts to upgrade the Law gear (i180) and then did Ravana/Alex Normal for i190 gear. The introduction of the Eso gear messed things up as the best way to get the tomestones was to rerun the dungeons tuned for characters in gear 40 ilevels less than what you currently had.

I suspect the biggest cause of your confusion is that SE is gearing up 3 distinct player groups using mostly the same content but consume that content at differing rates. They were planning for casual players to be at around i180 at the start of 3.1 and end up around i200 to i210 before 3.2. Midcore players were around i200 when 3.1 started and are intended to hit i210 by the end of the patch. Hardcore players were expected to hit i205 before 3.1 landed and then gain those last 5 ilevels during 3.1.

[Zumi]

Amazing for THF/NIN/RNG Weapon skills until lvl 75, when the Aurora Boots beat them out with +5 stats.

Back in the day they did offer you an upgrade for WS gear for thf and other dd jobs in Sky.



Gear from Rhapsodies zone, the game has come so far since then. When you get level 99 you should have way better gear then level 7 boots. SE did do this eventually. Most of the end game gear now has so many stats on it, that it becomes overly complex, do people want stats like this from the current FFXI expansion in FFXIV?

[Kallera]

Back in the day they did offer you an upgrade for WS gear for thf and other dd jobs in Sky.



Gear from Rhapsodies zone, the game has come so far since then. When you get level 99 you should have way better gear then level 7 boots. SE did do this eventually. Most of the end game gear now has so many stats on it, that it becomes overly complex, do people want stats like this from the current FFXI expansion in FFXIV?

Yes. I. do.

Why? Becaude It can open up far more possibilities than the overly simplistic fare that we currently have. I will take take that, over having everything designed around a treadmill that is wearing out its welcome.

You do in fact, answer your own question. "The game has come so far since then" but FFXIV feels like it isn't going anywhere. The gear, even compared to 1.0, feels more restrictive in both if they can equip for looks and what a player can do with it as a functional piece.

[Zumi]

Yes. I. do.

It's just the kitchen skin approach though. They put on almost every stat possible because they have so many jobs in the game they put weird stuff on it like magic attack for blu mages and ninja spells.

[CyrilLucifer]

snip

Yes, I love the way gear works in modern XI far more than I did at 75. It allows for far more varied builds than 75 did.

For example, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, anything/SCH can actually nuke now for decent damage. My SCH actually power cures for more than a WHM due to weather effects and weather-enhancing gear (though WHM has stronger AOE) in its cure set, and I love it. Plus, Regen bonuses.

I don't really see those stats as too complex, you just need to have some minor experience with the XI meta to understand them. Haste increases attack speed, PDT is self explanatory, Subtle Blow reduces enemy TP gain from your attacks so they use skills less often. Triple attack gives you a chance of triple attacking.

I'm not sure how that's too complex? In fact, I'd say they're more self-explanatory than XIV's. How does Skill Speed effect my BRD, again?

Also, mages are a better example for specialized gear. You're not going to be using the same nuking gear on BLM and SCH because they have different skill caps and magic accuracy; they need different gear to compensate for these differences. And SMN needs something different all together, gear that provides bonuses for their pets and things like BP reduction. This is more what I'd like from XIV - gear that compliments the class's abilities, rather than the generic crap we get. It doesn't need to be overly complex.

PS: For anyone who doesn't know how the iLevel system works in XI, the physical cap is 99, so in order to raise the cap to 119, you use equipment to raise your level to compensate. Hence you have the physical stat bonuses being really high on them. It's a bit silly, but the argument is more about the special traits, rather than the stat vomit.

[Andrea]

It's just the kitchen skin approach though. They put on almost every stat possible because they have so many jobs in the game they put weird stuff on it like magic attack for blu mages and ninja spells.

Its better than what we currently have here.

Get the accuracy cap you need then ignore accuracy.
Get the amount of Skill speed you need then ignore Skill speed.
The only real secondary stats that you dont ignore after a while is crit and det.
Then theres also parry which unless they changed it since last time I looked at it was garbage.

The secondary stat system atm is almost nonexistent.

[Cynric]

I'm not sure how that's too complex? In fact, I'd say they're more self-explanatory than XIV's. How does Skill Speed effect my BRD, again?

You've got rose colored glasses on man, How you think the words "Subtle Blow" would translate easier to understand than the words "Skill Speed" are mind boggling. Subtle Blow's name has nothing to do with the effect it has, where as Skill speed literally increases the speed at which you do skills. I just don't get how you can claim to understand that "Haste" increases aspd, but Skill speeds effects are beyond you

I get that you want something different, something more like FFXI, I also know that FFXI is still there, and FFXIV will never be like FFXI. The way gear, stats, and skills work in FFXI are a mess.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

I'm lost. So you want a stat system that's extremely convoluted? Personally I'd rather complementary stats buffs like decreased Jump cool down to be baked into the class, and have the customization come in the form of being able to pick and choose traits from a pool. But even that won't be immune to the number crunchers.