MCH, still as bad?

[RiceisNice]

...

On my end, I'm playing MCH because I need to have a feel of difference from how I was playing 2.0. In BRD's case, I just feel like it's regressed more than anything because of WM working against river of blood and the inherent nature of BRD. On MCH's end, it largely feels the same as 2.0 BRD because of the instant casts and oGCD usage, with the difference being wildfire (which is also a slap/kiss relationship with me).

Gear scaling is also another thing, BRD is going to benefit and scale a lot more from crit more than MCH can ever hope to do because of RoB and BRD's overall potency being from themselves rather than part of it being from a secondary source (the turret), and I feel like that's where the difference is going to grow as the Ilvl increases. That's not even getting into how BRD j has far better tools for progression (with DPS checks being the primary bottleneck anyway) because of rain of death and foe requiem for overall dps.

[jssanderson747]

MCH's single target damage should be buffed to above BRD level since it requires more skill to play well.

This apparently isn't common knowledge, but Mch does higher dps than bard almost across the board. It requires more skill almost exclusively because it does higher damage.

[UBERHAXED]

It's inaccurate to use as a comparison to something that has a much larger data sample, versus using it as an average for individual performance. And the fact that it's a "new job" isn't a good excuse for something to have a relatively smaller data to compare, looking at DRK:PLD numbers.

Technically off topic, but I think you have some obvious observation bias here. If you look at any census data (i.e. the ones they officially release: http://www.finalfantasyxiv.com/Eorze...N_Census_L.PNG) it will be obvious that there are far more players playing older classes (i.e. pld) than newer classes (i.e. drk). The fact that DRK is over represented in the percentile should tell you that making an argument based on sample size is unsound.

[RiceisNice]

Technically off topic, but I think you have some obvious observation bias here. If you look at any census data (i.e. the ones they officially release: http://www.finalfantasyxiv.com/Eorze...N_Census_L.PNG) it will be obvious that there are far more players playing older classes (i.e. pld) than newer classes (i.e. drk). The fact that DRK is over represented in the percentile should tell you that making an argument based on sample size is unsound.

That census is dated a while back though, and I don't recall the critera on whether it was level 50, 60, or mained (the last being next to impossible to determined). Though stepping away from the numbers, I went back to see what the poster is conveying. It's a different context within the relevant discussion (single target dps vs effective raid dps).

This apparently isn't common knowledge, but Mch does higher dps than bard almost across the board. It requires more skill almost exclusively because it does higher damage.

It's not common knowledge because MCH isn't doing more than BRD across the board. Most of the encounters allow for double DoTing which favors BRD's passive and dynamics, and some of the fights work against MCH's tool kit (such as invulnerability phases for delaying wildfire bursts, or adds diluting ricochet)

[UBERHAXED]

That census is dated a while back though, and I don't recall the critera on whether it was level 50, 60, or mained (the last being next to impossible to determined). Though stepping away from the numbers, I went back to see what the poster is conveying. It's a different context within the relevant discussion (single target dps vs effective raid dps).



It's not common knowledge because MCH isn't doing more than BRD across the board. Most of the encounters allow for double DoTing which favors BRD's passive and dynamics, and some of the fights work against MCH's tool kit (such as invulnerability phases for delaying wildfire bursts, or adds diluting ricochet)

But isn't that kind of the same across the board for jobs in general? Such as BLM to summoner and Dragoon to monk.

[Ephier]

This apparently isn't common knowledge, but Mch does higher dps than bard almost across the board. It requires more skill almost exclusively because it does higher damage.

One, no it does not. Two the only reason MCH would even appear to do more is because of hyper charge. Which if a BRD had access to it would just boost them more. Any fight that has more than one mob in it, MCH is at a huge disadvantage. BRD double dotting and OGCD aoe is monstrously strong.

[UBERHAXED]

One, no it does not. Two the only reason MCH would even appear to do more is because of hyper charge. Which if a BRD had access to it would just boost them more. Any fight that has more than one mob in it, MCH is at a huge disadvantage. BRD double dotting and OGCD aoe is monstrously strong.

I think you are confusing "MCH is at a huge disadvantage" with "Bard gains a slight bonus". How does a fight having more than one mob decrease the dps of MCH (I'll give you a hint, it doesn't)? Also the statement "the only reason MCH would even appear to do more is because" is kind of things one would say when in denial...

[Mimilu]

I'm currently leveling my MCH and it's only at 45 but I don't feel like it's harder then BRD was, I just feel like everything leads to Wildfire and then afterwards, while it is on cooldown, you're just waiting for it to come back, where as a BRD, you kind of just unloaded everything when it popped up.

One thing I wish for is that Foot Graze and Suppressive Fire did damage. They both kind of just sit on my hotbar, unused, and I would love to have another attack to weave in-between my weaponskills when Reload isn't up.

[Ephier]

I think you are confusing "MCH is at a huge disadvantage" with "Bard gains a slight bonus". How does a fight having more than one mob decrease the dps of MCH (I'll give you a hint, it doesn't)? Also the statement "the only reason MCH would even appear to do more is because" is kind of things one would say when in denial...

BRD dots do 30 more potency per target, and tick faster 18s vs 30s so they have the ability to get the full duration out of their dots a lot easier on mobs than MCH do. Not only do they get the full duration quicker they also get increased chance of procs. Also do not put words in my mouth. I never said MCH dps gets lower, I just said that they are at a huge disadvantage whenever there is more than 1 target to hit. The gap is already there before multiple targets, the addition of more just makes it bigger.

[UBERHAXED]

BRD dots do 30 more potency per target, and tick faster 18s vs 30s so they have the ability to get the full duration out of their dots a lot easier on mobs than MCH do. Not only do they get the full duration quicker they also get increased chance of procs. Also do not put words in my mouth. I never said MCH dps gets lower, I just said that they are at a huge disadvantage whenever there is more than 1 target to hit. The gap is already there before multiple targets, the addition of more just makes it bigger.

The DPS of bard improving does not affect the DPS of MCH whatsoever, there is no "disadvantage". That like saying "Bard is at a HUGE!1!! disadvantage when there is a summoner in the party in A2S!!!!", which is clearly false... Then you ask, "how is bard related to summoner?". And I rebuttal with "How is MCH related to BRD?". Of course you'll reply "They are both ranged". And then upon realizing that SMN is ranged, you'll see that it doesn't matter. You don't see BLMs complain about SMN in similar situations because it's a non-issue. It's kind of hard to make all class the same dps, when all of them (barring all 3 melee classes) have RNG elements. Because of this simple impossibility there will be a natural ordering of the classes, where in certain situations, one class will be better than another class. And even then, some classes in very out of the norm situations can get unnaturally high dps just by favor of RNG (which was likely the case when you see bard at the top of the distribution, but not in general). I also could make the case that monk is at a disadvantage to bard when in a multi-target scenario, but no one would care, similar to you're argument with MCH.