MCH, still as bad?

[Ephier]

This apparently isn't common knowledge, but Mch does higher dps than bard almost across the board. It requires more skill almost exclusively because it does higher damage.

One, no it does not. Two the only reason MCH would even appear to do more is because of hyper charge. Which if a BRD had access to it would just boost them more. Any fight that has more than one mob in it, MCH is at a huge disadvantage. BRD double dotting and OGCD aoe is monstrously strong.

[UBERHAXED]

One, no it does not. Two the only reason MCH would even appear to do more is because of hyper charge. Which if a BRD had access to it would just boost them more. Any fight that has more than one mob in it, MCH is at a huge disadvantage. BRD double dotting and OGCD aoe is monstrously strong.

I think you are confusing "MCH is at a huge disadvantage" with "Bard gains a slight bonus". How does a fight having more than one mob decrease the dps of MCH (I'll give you a hint, it doesn't)? Also the statement "the only reason MCH would even appear to do more is because" is kind of things one would say when in denial...

[Ephier]

I think you are confusing "MCH is at a huge disadvantage" with "Bard gains a slight bonus". How does a fight having more than one mob decrease the dps of MCH (I'll give you a hint, it doesn't)? Also the statement "the only reason MCH would even appear to do more is because" is kind of things one would say when in denial...

BRD dots do 30 more potency per target, and tick faster 18s vs 30s so they have the ability to get the full duration out of their dots a lot easier on mobs than MCH do. Not only do they get the full duration quicker they also get increased chance of procs. Also do not put words in my mouth. I never said MCH dps gets lower, I just said that they are at a huge disadvantage whenever there is more than 1 target to hit. The gap is already there before multiple targets, the addition of more just makes it bigger.

[UBERHAXED]

BRD dots do 30 more potency per target, and tick faster 18s vs 30s so they have the ability to get the full duration out of their dots a lot easier on mobs than MCH do. Not only do they get the full duration quicker they also get increased chance of procs. Also do not put words in my mouth. I never said MCH dps gets lower, I just said that they are at a huge disadvantage whenever there is more than 1 target to hit. The gap is already there before multiple targets, the addition of more just makes it bigger.

The DPS of bard improving does not affect the DPS of MCH whatsoever, there is no "disadvantage". That like saying "Bard is at a HUGE!1!! disadvantage when there is a summoner in the party in A2S!!!!", which is clearly false... Then you ask, "how is bard related to summoner?". And I rebuttal with "How is MCH related to BRD?". Of course you'll reply "They are both ranged". And then upon realizing that SMN is ranged, you'll see that it doesn't matter. You don't see BLMs complain about SMN in similar situations because it's a non-issue. It's kind of hard to make all class the same dps, when all of them (barring all 3 melee classes) have RNG elements. Because of this simple impossibility there will be a natural ordering of the classes, where in certain situations, one class will be better than another class. And even then, some classes in very out of the norm situations can get unnaturally high dps just by favor of RNG (which was likely the case when you see bard at the top of the distribution, but not in general). I also could make the case that monk is at a disadvantage to bard when in a multi-target scenario, but no one would care, similar to you're argument with MCH.

[Ephier]

The DPS of bard improving does not affect the DPS of MCH whatsoever, there is no "disadvantage". That like saying "Bard is at a HUGE!1!! disadvantage when there is a summoner in the party in A2S!!!!", which is clearly false... Then you ask, "how is bard related to summoner?". And I rebuttal with "How is MCH related to BRD?". Of course you'll reply "They are both ranged". And then upon realizing that SMN is ranged, you'll see that it doesn't matter. You don't see BLMs complain about SMN in similar situations because it's a non-issue. It's kind of hard to make all class the same dps, when all of them (barring all 3 melee classes) have RNG elements. Because of this simple impossibility there will be a natural ordering of the classes, where in certain situations, one class will be better than another class. And even then, some classes in very out of the norm situations can get unnaturally high dps just by favor of RNG (which was likely the case when you see bard at the top of the distribution, but not in general). I also could make the case that monk is at a disadvantage to bard when in a multi-target scenario, but no one would care, similar to you're argument with MCH.

I see you like arguing just for the sake of arguing. MCH and BRD are categorized together because they both perform the same function. Restoration of resources. Any progression group will only have one or the other so they are compared to one another. The problem here is not that BRDs perform better in certain fights, its they perform better in every fight. In a normal progression scenario BRD will do more personal DPS and has foes to boost casters further solidifying their status at the top. While MCH may have hyper charge, it really does not keep up with BV foes which can be used 3 times in A3S and A4S.

And again I will say, do not put words in my mouth.

[UBERHAXED]

I see you like arguing just for the sake of arguing. MCH and BRD are categorized together because they both perform the same function. Restoration of resources. Any progression group will only have one or the other so they are compared to one another. The problem here is not that BRDs perform better in certain fights, its they perform better in every fight. In a normal progression scenario BRD will do more personal DPS and has foes to boost casters further solidifying their status at the top. While MCH may have hyper charge, it really does not keep up with BV foes which can be used 3 times in A3S and A4S.

And again I will say, do not put words in my mouth.

Yeah except that's wrong (you were even given proof for the opposite, where MCH performs better in every tier) and you dismiss it as "skewed data" with still nothing to support your own PoV. Maybe if you stop being bad you will become a statistic and be better than the bard.

[Ephier]

Yeah except that's wrong (you were even given proof for the opposite, where MCH performs better in every tier) and you dismiss it as "skewed data" with still nothing to support your own PoV. Maybe if you stop being bad you will become a statistic and be better than the bard.

I have been shown absolutely nothing. I have checked FFlogs my self and MCH is lower than BRD on EVERY savage fight by 100+ DPS. You claim I dismiss this data that I wasn't presented as skewed but the data I am looking at confirms my point. I assume you are smart enough character to proceed to FFlogs and check these numbers I am claiming. All one must do is navigate through the tabs at the top. Yet again I will tell you, stop putting words in my mouth.

[RiceisNice]

Yeah except that's wrong (you were even given proof for the opposite, where MCH performs better in every tier) and you dismiss it as "skewed data" with still nothing to support your own PoV. Maybe if you stop being bad you will become a statistic and be better than the bard.

BRD is performing better in every encounter. Even if you go back to Sidra's links, the max output of a BRD (and this is only going by the last 2 weeks) is still higher than what MCH has done.

[RiceisNice]

When we're arguing about semantics, there's nothing else left for discussion.