MCH, still as bad?

[Deurge]

Hello everyone! I've just come back to the game and I want to lvl something different. I've always played melee DPS and Tank classes, so now I wanna focus on ranged. I've always liked BLM and MCH, slightly leaning towards the latter, but when I stopped playing it was considered the worst class in the game. Is it still so or have things changed? Thank you all for your attention.

[m3eansean]

MCH relies heavily on player skill. In order to do appropriate numbers you have to be on the ball almost all the time. The complaint is that with all this effort, you still do dps equivalent or just below a BRD, who does not need to contribute as much effort.

Disclaimer - I have not played lvl 60 of either class and am just referencing what in game friends describe to me and what I have read about the classes.

[SoloKing]

Much like what m3eansean said, it's only a bad job if you play it badly.

MCH, imho is like MNK, more effort is required to rival other jobs of the same type. However, the difference is, with MNK the extra effort and know how of the job can put you above the other melees. With MCH, all the extra effort and know how will only put you on par or worse than a BRD who knows what he's doing but with less extra work.

So, in short; the MCH is fine right now, but you need to keep in mind that you'll be working your butt off to remain that way.

Plus, seeing your Wildfire hit ridiculous numbers like 13k in Void Ark is enough to make you a career Machinist.

[Aeliott]

I don't know how popular my opinion will be but...

After using MCH for quite a while now (not even maining), it's...really not that hard. There's a learning curve for sure, but once the right button / cd presses for when ammo is up become second nature it's not a difficult transition to prepping cds the right way for when Wildfire is due back up.

Now that we've had 6 months to spend with this new job, I really don't feel like I agree with the "same results for a lot more work" analogies. When I first used MCH I hated it and often got flustered with CD timings while dealing with mechanics, but like any other job I just kept rolling with it. The only time I feel I really need to pay significant attention is when ammo's down for random procs. It's harder to *learn* than Bard initially perhaps, but I strongly disagree that it's a lot more effort when comfortable with both.

As for it being the worst job....not really. It does about the same numbers as bard, shines when you have mostly physical DPS, and generally comes down to playstyle preference between it and Bard. In the current state of the game it doesn't seem right to label any single dps as the worst. The only real point of note against it is Foe Requiem being better than Hypercharge if you have at least one caster.

tl;dr: MCH is good.

[Ephier]

, I really don't feel like I agree with the "same results for a lot more work" analogies.

Play it end game and come back. Almost every MCH player I have seen say something like this put out sub optimal numbers and while the numbers they do are "fine" they are not optimal, which is what we are talking about here. MCH requires a ton of micro management on low cooldown skills to put out lower personal and raid DPS than BRD. I personally don't care because I like the class, one of the most difficult classes in the game to play properly next to SMN.

[Gameplayzero]

I don't know how popular my opinion will be but...

After using MCH for quite a while now (not even maining), it's...really not that hard.

are we talking raiding and trying to play the class at its fullest potential or just casual content? I mean its one thing to say that if you aren't raiding, but....

at the end of the day it does come down to the person, but its definitely (even as shown in this thread) regarded as a tougher to maximize job. Mainly as others have stated: since your dps is so low you can't screw up along with other factors.

[Aeliott]

are we talking raiding and trying to play the class at its fullest potential or just casual content? I mean its one thing to say that if you aren't raiding, but....

at the end of the day it does come down to the person, but its definitely (even as shown in this thread) regarded as a tougher to maximize job. Mainly as others have stated: since your dps is so low you can't screw up along with other factors.

I regard its difficulty more in terms of...fight knowledge I guess? A Bard can experience things firsthand a bit more easily, MCH will have to adapt to fight timers or add phases and such to determine when is best to use their longer cooldowns and whether or not in conjunction with Wildfire. Which is in my eyes the only significant difference between the two in terms of maximising DPS - Wildfire. So we might even be on the same page here, there is more of a learning curve of lining things up dependent on the fights (which Bard doesn't have), but in terms of actual play and mechanics I don't consider it hard. By the time you reach 60, depending on your method of leveling you should find them mostly second nature. But there's more of an initial learning curve when going into end-game stuff for sure. I meant in terms of playstyle.

I suppose in that sense my comments on effort compared to bard don't hold (in raids at least), so I'll retract that :P I don't think that the difficulty in adapting cooldown usage is extreme enough to put off someone, I guess it comes down to playstyle preference though; a lot of people find MCH more "fluid" than Bard despite Wildfire's centralising nature.

[RiceisNice]

I suppose in that sense my comments on effort compared to bard don't hold (in raids at least), so I'll retract that :P I don't think that the difficulty in adapting cooldown usage is extreme enough to put off someone, I guess it comes down to playstyle preference though; a lot of people find MCH more "fluid" than Bard despite Wildfire's centralising nature.

I'd argue that MCH is closer to 2.0's BRD gameplay with the instant casts and amount of oGCD weaving they can do, sans the wildfire bursts. But at the same time, those instant casts kind of defeat the point of GB in the first place. Beyond the ammo off cooldown and wildfire, you're just more focused on looking for procs to use, much like BRD spamming heavy shot and using SS when it falls off or it gets a proc.

And I guess a turret is a thing too, but there's so very little interaction with it almost feels as involved as ninja poisons.

BRD on the other hand, feels like a mess to play because WM feels like it's just patched on with no consideration of their original gameplay (esp since it involves an oGCD resetting it's cooldown).

[Gameplayzero]

I regard its difficulty more in terms of...fight knowledge I guess?

I understand haha. Thank you for the mature explanation despite my post possibly coming across as a bit snarky (though that wasn't what I intended it to be lol).

[PFM]

More effort, less reward as BRD. Shines in nonstandard 3 melee DPS comps where its raid damage contribution is equivalent to a BRDs. Hypercharge is too weak for it to work in metagame setups, job requires babysitting in heavy raid damage situations due to no way to mitigate incoming damage. All around a huge liability and you don't even pull better numbers for twice the effort. Bad for progression weeks. Bad for 1 month out. Only decent when content reaches months behind status.