The arrogance of some people

[DarkmoonVael]

Excuse me it is not being lazy. I took healer to heal not DPS. If I wanted to DPS I would play a DPS class. If I keep everyone alive then I am doing my job.

Do you also expect the DPS to throw heals too? If no then why do you expect healers to DPS?

Also there is a balance to be considered here. If the dps are doing such a poor job, as a healer, your mana will suffer if you try to dps and heal too much. When things are taking such a long time to kill, the healing output is increased by the healer to compenstae for the additional damage the tank is taking through things not dying fast enough. In a situation like OP is talking about, its not really about should the healer dps or not but CAN the healer dps or not in this situation. It sound like healer dps wouldnt significantly speed up the mobs death enough due to bad dps outputting bad Dps.

However, it also depends on how much the tank was pulling. Small pulls taking forever to kill, the healer should dps. Large pulls taking forever to kill, its going to cause problems on healers mana (except SCH possible).

Thats said, as a healer i do as much dps as possible. I get bored if i dont.

[Eothas]

...

I kinda agree with most of what you have said, but...

Healer DPS isn't going to take minutes off a run

It will. A good healer can put 800~1k DPS in every trash pack. (Assuming a half-decent tank) and 400~700 DPS in a boss fight. If the tank is also doing good DPS its like adding another super competent DPS to the party.

[Dejectedbunny]

The lesson to be learned here is that everyone should carry a full range of potions, ethers, and medicines to use regardless of their role, what other jobs may be present, or the context of what is currently happening at any given time.


P.S. To those that keep bringing up the damage spells that healers (more specifically Whm) gets. Putting the whole DPS argument aside, try completing a quest battle or any content using only the damage from your auto attack and see how far you get.

[AeraLure]

I kinda agree with most of what you have said, but...



It will. A good healer can put 800~1k DPS in every trash pack. (Assuming a half-decent tank) and 400~700 DPS in a boss fight. If the tank is also doing good DPS its like adding another super competent DPS to the party.

Same, and yes, it does take minutes off a fight. It's something any healer looking to be a great healer should aspire to and general content, or at least EX, is the place to do it before entering raid content. A decent healer can pull those numbers and that absolutely is noticeable. If you're not comfortable doing it, new to being a healer, or aren't going to do it for whatever reason, and you are level 60, I still think it's pretty expected of you and if you won't be doing it, tell your group straight up before you start.

[Kosmos992k]

Also there is a balance to be considered here. If the dps are doing such a poor job, as a healer, your mana will suffer if you try to dps and heal too much. When things are taking such a long time to kill, the healing output is increased by the healer to compenstae for the additional damage the tank is taking through things not dying fast enough.

This is a problem I have faced as PLD many times, when sub-par dps means adds take too long to die, and I take far more damage than I would with better DPS, and for a much longer time. That puts pressure on the healer's MP, as does the feequency with which the DPS players stand in stupid. Unless the 'nice to have' extra DPS that a healer can safely provide, offsets the lack of real DPS, it's not going to alter that situation. The healer wil OOM because of the duration of the fight and the MP spent on supplementting the DPS.

My problem with all of this expectation on healers is that, it shifts responsibility for DPS to healers who already have enough responsibility to handle. In end-game situations when there are tight DPS checks that either require truly optimal DPS play, or supplemental DPS from healers and stance dancing tanks, then yes the team will expect healer DPS, but that is a known requirement of that specific content, in that situation everyone is equally responsible for success. In normal, mainstream content though, dealing damage is the primary responsibility of the DPS, tanks incidentally will deal damage to generate hate, healer DPS is still relatively optional. If healer DPS makes a significant difference, it's because the damage dealers are doing poorly.

[Kosmos992k]

I kinda agree with most of what you have said, but...



It will. A good healer can put 800~1k DPS in every trash pack. (Assuming a half-decent tank) and 400~700 DPS in a boss fight. If the tank is also doing good DPS its like adding another super competent DPS to the party.

I understand that. I'm thinking in the context of Duty Finder, and PUGs,where the assumption is that all players are of average skill. In that situation, the healing requirement is relatively higher than in a skilled and well geared group running the same content. That reduces the scope that a healer has to safely DPS. In that situation, I don'tthink that the healers DPS will appreciably shorten the run. Actually, depending on the party composition, gearing and level of content, I'd say that coordinated damage dealing is more effective at shortening a run than healer dps.

I agree that if we're talking about a very good player playing healer with a decent group, there will be much more scope for that healer to maximize their damage dealing. So yes, in that circumstance a run could be appreciably shorter.

[Bixillarla]

It's interesting that some players always wants to do the minimum required, nothing more and are afraid of trying something in a GAME. Why not try something different, something fun, something that you have to pay attention and feel engaged, something that may have a little chance of failure, but if you pull it off it feels rewarding? IMO most players that say that they don't like to DPS, are in fact just insecure to stance dance.

Not everyone finds DPS fun. I took healer so I could you know heal. If I wanted to DPS I will play a DPS class. I play to have fun and healing only is fun to me, I don't want to try and dance back and forth, I am there is heal and it is relaxing and fun to me to just heal.

I don't even have the DPS skills on my hot bar and have not used them in ages.

If someone doesn't like then they can kick me and take their chances with the next healer.

[Aryalandi]

Except that the general discussion is based almost entirely around some healers not wanting to dps vs. people who want them to, i have heard far too much about dps not doing their jobs and honestly i don't understand that either

As mentioned in my earlier posts a lot of things are situational and people should be prepared to adapt what they are doing to the flow of each battle. If mobs are taking forever to die keeping your mp up to keep the tank alive comes to the forefront of the strategy, if it is because a dps is refusing or unable to play their part and they will not or can not do better to the point where it weighs the party down it is time to consider a new dps, just as a tank who is failing through attitude or a healer who is doing so may eventually need replaced.

It is one thing to do no more than you are comfortable with, it is another to refuse to push yourself out of your comfort zone in a party situation to the extent that it becomes a detriment to your party.

It can be scary, but once you do it you may find it fun and it does in fact speed things up greatly when everyone is playing their class to its absolute potential.

[Twilite]

Excuse me it is not being lazy. I took healer to heal not DPS. If I wanted to DPS I would play a DPS class. If I keep everyone alive then I am doing my job.

Do you also expect the DPS to throw heals too? If no then why do you expect healers to DPS?

Eh, if you have time to DPS, then it's only logical to do so. If you're just standing there doing nothing, and you will/do(happens to every healer), then you're actually slowing things down.

Let me say it again so you don't blow your chimney: If you have time to DPS. Then it's only logical to do so.

If you truly want to ONLY heal then fine. Frankly, I don't see it as lazy, but my point is you can do much more in those periods where no healing is needed/regen(or job version of this) is taking care of things.

[Andrea]

stuff

I most likely got the wrong impression on your post then, sorry if what I took it as was not what you meant.

I wouldn't really say Im demanding anything, if it came across that way sorry. As I said in my post I get that people can be new and not great as a healer. Im fully ok with people taking their time and learning the basics first, those aren't really the healers I have problems with. We were all there at a stage after all , weren't we?

The healers I have a problem with are those geared in 210 and will sit around doing nothing or even jumping around while the party takes no damage.If you have time to jump around and run about you have the time to dot enemies. If people are happy to sit around doing nothing for 30-60 seconds at a time fine, it is their choice, I can't force people to play in a certain way. It also is my choice to consider those people lazy.