Strength Tanks

[Enesuia]

I'm form excalibur, lol I had a guy name Korivash call me a bad tank for slotting my vitality points in over strength. Apparently I am a bad tank for being a vit pally... For just a 5% dmg output with Str set.... and reset. So redundantly lame. Tired of meeting these so call "Tanks" tell me how to be bad. I agree with this post. Lately I've been meeting bad tanks and enough is enough. Some of these bad tanks are usually STR build and even some Vit Build.

Also I pull with Voke then shield lob or Scorns in, people have been attacking me with this for pulling voke and being told that Voke has no threat points at all, even when it general it puts you on-top, and keeps you on-top once you execute your strongest skill ability.

[fm_fenrir]

Also I pull with Voke then shield lob or Scorns in, people have been attacking me with this for pulling voke and being told that Voke has no threat points at all, even when it general it puts you on-top, and keeps you on-top once you execute your strongest skill ability.

Without someone else to produce threat, provoke is worth exactly 1 point of threat. It does $highest_threat+1, so if it's zero to start with, you get 1 whole point. It's literally nothing and a single tick of regen will overpower it instantly. That's why people are telling you to stop doing that.
Fun fact about provoke: It counts as an attack on the bombs in Pharos HM, so you can pop them from a longer distance. Neat party trick, not very useful otherwise.

Also, VIT doesn't make you any harder to kill unless your healer is straight up napping. In those cases, you'll still die, it just takes an extra attack. STR is critical for PLD for a number of reasons, but at the minimum consider that Clemency scales off AP, not VIT/HP. Hitting an 8k crit heal as a tank rules.

[Enesuia]

Without someone else to produce threat, provoke is worth exactly 1 point of threat. It does $highest_threat+1, so if it's zero to start with, you get 1 whole point. It's literally nothing and a single tick of regen will overpower it instantly. That's why people are telling you to stop doing that.
Fun fact about provoke: It counts as an attack on the bombs in Pharos HM, so you can pop them from a longer distance. Neat party trick, not very useful otherwise.

Also, VIT doesn't make you any harder to kill unless your healer is straight up napping. In those cases, you'll still die, it just takes an extra attack. STR is critical for PLD for a number of reasons, but at the minimum consider that Clemency scales off AP, not VIT/HP. Hitting an 8k crit heal as a tank rules.

Though, I don't lose threat with it o.o because I continue to pull threat, and using it before shield lob or any other skill is even better. Never had issues with it lol

[SpookyGhost]

Though, I don't lose threat with it o.o because I continue to pull threat, and using it before shield lob or any other skill is even better. Never had issues with it lol

As long as you're having no issues with it then you can feel free to continue to do it, obviously. However, something to consider is that if there's ever a situation wherein you need Provoke within the first 90s of the fight or that Provoke would actually prove some use, then you can't use it because you've already wasted it. With the way you're currently using Provoke it basically does absolutely nothing - which inherently isn't bad, but depending on the situation it can be. You can keep pulling with Provoke if you truly wish to, but at least recognize that it's not actually doing anything.

Also, pulling with Provoke isn't always necessary bad. If you're trying to pick out a particular mob that's far away (succubi in AK, bees in Neverreap) then Provoke is a fantastic tool. It's just bosses where it doesn't really do anything.

I'm form excalibur, lol I had a guy name Korivash call me a bad tank for slotting my vitality points in over strength. Apparently I am a bad tank for being a vit pally... For just a 5% dmg output with Str set.... and reset. So redundantly lame. Tired of meeting these so call "Tanks" tell me how to be bad. I agree with this post. Lately I've been meeting bad tanks and enough is enough. Some of these bad tanks are usually STR build and even some Vit Build.

Largely depends on what content you're doing. If it's just DF stuff then sure, go VIT, doesn't really matter - VIT PLD is better for trash pulls anyway since PLD really won't contribute any damage when it's just spamming Flash and applying Goring Blade randomly. If it's raid content then you're a part of a group and if being a STR tank helps your group meet certain DPS checks and you aren't compromising your survivability (ie you're popping CDs appropriately and not taking unnecessary damage) then you should go STR. It's not all or none, though, a lot of tanks (especially those who can't afford crafted accessories and are low on gear) will use 3 STR + 2 VIT acessories. Depending on left side pieces, this can put them at a high enough HP value while also increasing their DPS.

But yeah, if it's not raid content then it doesn't really matter. Helps in Thordan EX a bit as well if your group is low on DPS since reaching the last phase can make things incredibly stressful.

[Sapphidia]

Though, I don't lose threat with it o.o because I continue to pull threat, and using it before shield lob or any other skill is even better. Never had issues with it lol

Yes, you didnt lose threat because of your OTHER ABILITIES. The Provoke on the pull does basically nothing. It's not "negative", but basically it has zero impact compared to just opening with Shield Lob. You could do a freaking Manderville dance before you pulled and then "never have issues" too, and the Manderville dance would have been about as useful as pulling with provoke.

Opening with Provoke is bad because you -might- need to use it within the first 40 seconds of a pull of something goes wrong. Of course, in most cases you likely wont, but it's just bad practise to use it needlessly when it doesnt do anything worthwhile.

For just a 5% dmg output with Str set.... and reset.

Full Strength build (5 Slaying Accessories) will generally put out about 25% more damage/threat than a full Vitality build (5 Fending). Most tanks mix and match so might have 2 of one and 3 of another, at least on content they're not super confidant with. Noone is saying vitality is useless, but strength has a huge effect on your performance, so it's always best to only use as much vitality gear as you -need- (generally enough to survive the biggest single tank-busting hit an encounter has, with a little leeway).

[Melian]

I had a guy name Korivash call me a bad tank for slotting my vitality points in over strength.

I wouldn't call anyone bad for choosing to use vitality accessories. If you're pulling well, holding enmity, and mitigating well at the right times with cool downs, you're getting your principle job done. As long as you're getting that done, you're average at the very worst.

In all fairness however, the DPS increase between all str and all vit accessories is substantially more than 5% though. It's hard (and probably a bad idea) to compare different people, even if they're in the same iLV, but eyeballing some paladins in various setups tonight I'd guestimate you can reasonably pull in ~20% more DPS with strength accessories. In DF stuff, it's still not that exciting (+20% of bad is still bad). If you're ever doing something with a tight DPS check though, it becomes relevant.

As for pulling with voke it will generate one enmity rather than none (It doesn't "in general" put you on top, it always puts you equal to highest enmity +1). I don't think there's any great reason to not pull with provoke, apart from the (significant) fact that it means it will be down for the next several seconds in case you actually needed it for something later. If you're sure you won't need to use it, then whatever. It's not hurting anyone. It's not helping you either though, beyond the most superficially technical sense of the word. Pulling with provoke is a lot like casting cover on someone not being attacked. It doesn't hurt anyone, but why? And if you need it later, you'll be out of luck and someone will be hurt by your previous poor judgement.

I'd second what fenrir said about the bombs. It's also useful just in general, if you want to drag someone in from further away. That worker bee down by the three antlions in Mocianne's Arboretum I like to grab in with provoke when he patrols back towards me, rather than make everyone go on a really long run, for example.

Also, VIT doesn't make you any harder to kill unless your healer is straight up napping. In those cases, you'll still die

I disagree. I've found several DF healers who are pseudonapping, rather than straight up, and extra vitality has kept me alive more than once (even though I shouldn't have needed it). Staying alive once on a 4 person DF fight can reasonably save me from having to redo the fight, and by saving me from having to redo the fight (and from having to run back to it!) i'm saving a lot more time than i would have clipped from the run by just slotting str stuff on my pld. I know very little about dark knights, but apparently strength is much more useful to multiple warrior abilities than to mine, so other people's mileage may vary, etc. In the same vein though, while some abilities benefit a lot from Str it's worth not forgetting that others get boosts from vitality. You can recover more HP from various healer cooldowns, get a better stoneskin, give a better divine veil. None of those are amazing perks by any means, but they do exist.

Str Pld or Vit Pld!?! doesn't have to be a black and white issue though. There are certainly several cases where strength is much better (including the aforementioned duty finders, if you know you're going in with half decent people). If you're trying new content though, trying content with super-hard tank hits, or simply don't know what kind of people you'll be stuck with, I think you can make a very compelling argument for using vitality. IMO saying that either str or vit is /always/ better is doing people a disservice, and it's just not true.

[Aniond]

SNIP

I agree. Every time I tank in either Sword Oath or with STR rings. I come close to death. Heals start complaining that I'm in the wrong stance. In a static I think going alL STR is good, but in PF, or similar. Safe if better....

[fm_fenrir]

I agree. Every time I tank in either Sword Oath or with STR rings. I come close to death. Heals start complaining that I'm in the wrong stance. In a static I think going alL STR is good, but in PF, or similar. Safe if better....

Coming close to death in STR accessories or out of tank stance means one (or both) of the following:
You're not using CDs properly.
The healer is expecting to afk through the content and let the faery do all the healing while they watch anime.

Also, Valkyrie, any PLD that doesn't Flash multiple times on a pull isn't going to use Unleash, Overpower, Dark Passenger, or Steel Cyclone, either. It's almost as if bad players have nothing to do with the job they choose.

[Jamillion]

I'm form excalibur, lol I had a guy name Korivash call me a bad tank for slotting my vitality points in over strength. Apparently I am a bad tank for being a vit pally... For just a 5% dmg output with Str set.... and reset. So redundantly lame. Tired of meeting these so call "Tanks" tell me how to be bad. I agree with this post. Lately I've been meeting bad tanks and enough is enough. Some of these bad tanks are usually STR build and even some Vit Build.

Also I pull with Voke then shield lob or Scorns in, people have been attacking me with this for pulling voke and being told that Voke has no threat points at all, even when it general it puts you on-top, and keeps you on-top once you execute your strongest skill ability.

You spec full Vit and pull with voke? Do you just never run 8 man content? I guarantee I'd end up ripping hate and being MT (since you couldn't voke back) as OT before I even realized what happened.

[kensatsu]

1) Str or Vita don't make a bad tank, cause str or vita tank should keep aggro and be healable, off course not be able to keep aggro/ get too hard to heal, is what we can call a bad tank,
Str tank have to be more exeperienced with the CD than a vita tank, because if the Str tank is too hard to heal, it's a also a bad tank, at this rate he should go for vita and get more exp with the CD before wear str accesories. Str tank don't have to say to a vita tank he is bad, because there good str tank caring about be tanky with a very strong use of the tank utility and bad str tank only carryng about dps but a hell to heal, this bad str tank should go back to vita and get learn to care on being tanky before wear str accesories.

2) Str accesories is not only 5% of strengh

3) Provoke give you the aggro of the previous better aggro player on the fight +1, so pull with provoke give you 1 of aggro. it not a skill for pull. it's a skill to get aggro back from a other player.
You should use Blood bath/fight on flight/ shield lob/ scorn/ the rage of the halone combo to open as MT, it's a good opener and you don't kill too much of usefull CD to open the fight.