Strength Tanks

[fm_fenrir]

Voke has 25y good pull, but do you really think you can out threat me after Scorn/Shield lob/ Spirits then finish off my Halone? I do get 2 off set CDS that don't connect with my Halone combo CD, I also do have Flash... Seriously. LEARN YOUR THREAT GENERATION!. -___- Then theres my Def Abilities that generate more Threat point actions... unless you don't know that any ability generates a threat point?....

It's more that if you need provoke immediately after (read: Berserk WAR spamming Butcher's for hot deeps), you're going to be very sad because you can't. Provoke is for tank swaps and recovering from a burst DPS peeling away from you, not for pulling.

[kensatsu]

provoke is not a enmity skill, it's a skill to recover aggro from someone else, pull with provoke is useless and will not provide more enemity

[Jamillion]

Voke has 25y good pull, but do you really think you can out threat me after Scorn/Shield lob/ Spirits then finish off my Halone? I do get 2 off set CDS that don't connect with my Halone combo CD, I also do have Flash... Seriously. LEARN YOUR THREAT GENERATION!. -___- Then theres my Def Abilities that generate more Threat point actions... unless you don't know that any ability generates a threat point?....

P.S. Make it happen, don't just say it. Talk is cheap.

Actually genius, I'm positive my War would rip hate off of you within the first 30 seconds of a full party duty. Obviously you don't know anything about running full party duties or you'd know that a War OT's optimal rotation involves using our threat gen combo liberally. I rip hate off of pallys that aren't complete garbage routinely. You wasting provoke means I'd have to drop like 3 full GCDs (probably more) for you to get hate back. If you had provoke off cooldown I'd only waste one. Since I'm not going to waste time stroking your ego though I would just MT at that point.

[whiskeybravo]

I also do have Flash... Seriously. LEARN YOUR THREAT GENERATION!

Lol for days on this xD

Ene you don't stand a chance against any tank wearing str. It's just a numbers game. If you can produce enough threat to keep a dps or healer from peeling off, that's fine, it's all you need really. But threat works off multipliers from damage, so if your RoH does 1000 damage and my war BB does 3000 damage, it's just a numbers game you can't possibly catch up.

Voke can be used for longer pulls, sure, but that's not what it's for. It's a threat copy, you use it for tank swaps or when a healer or dps rips off you. Generally you can "get away" with using it if you are fast enough to shield lob or do something after you use it, but you can't just use it and expect it to hold hate for any amount of time. It won't, that's not what it's for. And as Spooky pointed out, if you use it on a pull then you won't have it for 40 some odd seconds in case you do need again.

[RuleofThree]

Also I pull with Voke then shield lob or Scorns

You are really missing the point here. When it's all said and done, you are getting the same amount of hate + 1, as any other tank who just uses Tomahawk alone. You are getting no statistical advantage at all, save for that one extra point. However, even this fact isn't the point.

The point is you are wasting an ability that takes 40 seconds to return, and by doing so risking a moment in which that ability would have been useful -such as dps derping and attacking the wrong enemy with their strongest attack. In situations like this, where it will take you half - or in worse cases - a full combo to get the hate back, you could have instead used provoke.

I know this post isn't gonna change your initiate-by-provoke ways, but at least I feel better by trying.

[Lyth]

The main cause for misunderstanding in the damage vs. mitigation discussion is that many players think that the two represent different play-styles. They don't. Your damage output as a tank has much less to do with your rotation than it would with a dps class. It has much more to do with how you understand the patterns of incoming damage and matching the correct amount of eHP and mitigation to that damage through gear, stance, and cooldown usage. If you underestimate the amount of incoming damage you die. If you overestimate it, your dps plummets.

There are elements of tanking that are not easily quantifiable, such as positioning and its impact on raid dps. But with all things being equal in terms of MT/OT roles, job choice, and ilvl, a tank who puts out more dps than another generally does so through a better understanding of mitigation and tanking as a whole. (You cannot put out dps while dead, so survival is intrinsically built into your ability to put out damage.)

The same principles apply to healing as well. The better you understand the healing timings of a fight, the more windows that you will see between points of incoming damage where you can safely put up dots and dps. This is not a trade-off. You just have a better understanding of when is safe and when is not.

[Azzalin]

There come to the point where tanks are slotting in STR to help in the dps checks and healers are melding accuracy to be able to pass DPS checks of certain raids as well.

Personally, I used to go full VIT. Slowly, I switched to STR. Now I'm practically all STR with only my points I get from leveling in VIT still. The only difference I've noticed is that things die faster during AoE pulls and DPS focusing on targets that are not my main no longer get ripped off as fast. Whether or not I live or die still pretty much just depends on the healer as long as I'm using my cool downs correctly.

During raid content, having extra HP is nice to take those big hits, but if you're using cool downs correctly you're fine as long as you have the minimum required. It's more important to be able to kill that run away slime in A3S as a tank than to have enough HP so you can stand around and watch everyone die before you. Just a thought.

tl;dr: Cool downs cool downs, cool downs. Use cool downs. Hallowed Ground, cool downs.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Strength is far more significant then 5%.

[Syzygian]

"Gesture threateningly, placing yourself at the top of a target's enmity list."

All it does is put you on top, it does not "generate increased enmity" as other abilities do. If you use this on pull, all it does is give you +1, because there is nobody at the top of the enmity list, nobody is even on the enmity list whatsoever because its on-pull. Hence why doing an initial pull with voke is useless. Says it right there in the tooltip.

[Jim_Berry]

I'm a VIT tank 98% of my time when I'm on PLD. While I do mechanics properly, and become less of a heal issues, I'm a bad tank let them say it because I don't MT in STR accessories. I know it's common to wear STR, but what people forget is, that this style was brought on by the developers because they said DPS, Tanks, and Healers need to maximize their dps to clear Alexander Savage.

The problem is, this mentality is brought over to every other content in the game now. I mean, some tanks did it in Coil, but wasn't necessary. Funny how if Ramuh don't die fast enough due to low dps, the tanks are blamed for NOT wearing STR accessories (I witnessed it happening a lot). This makes the DPS players happy because there is a small burden on them now.

At the same time, most PF groups (DF as well) wonder why it is taking them so long to get a tank. Basically, outside of Alexander Savage, I should not be pointed at if the mob(s) die slow when I'm on my PLD.