Pretending to dps in dungeons, is this a new fad?

[Kallera]

Could this be related to people being bored with the tomestone treadmill we've been on since 2.0?

[Kaurie]

Anyone else facepalming a little at that?

It's a trinity game. There are people whose job is to make sure the bad guy doesn't attack the squishies, there are people whose job is to make the bad guy die and there are people whose job is to keep all the other guys alive.

Those are the so called "roles" you queue up for. You cannot beat content with the entire party only healing and that is exactly why there are tank and DPS slots. If you feel like filling more than one role, that's a commendable effort, but not part of your job. Your job is clearly defined by your role.

And if you don't like that, ask for the trinity to be abolished. Then everyone is responsible for everything.

I face-palmed as much at that comment (for it being a little irrelevant) as much as I did your post.

Your job is defined by your job quest lines and your skills that you're given. In all of the healer quest lines, you're taught to both heal and DPS. One of the first skills that you acquire as a CNJ is Cleric Stance. It's quite clearly thrown in your face that you DPS as well as Heal. Your role is your responsibility, but it does not define your every action.

As I said before, if you want to play poorly, that is your choice. Just don't defend it.

Our 'job' is to have fun. The game gives us dungeons and missions to have fun with. And if you think healing is so easy that they're sitting on their thumbs all day then you try it. And yes, I have tried it. I've tried healing in most pre-Heavensward dungeons, even pre-nerf Pharos, and it's not as easy as you'd like to think. Speaking of pre-nerf Pharos... never beat it as healer. Not once. As Bard I've cleared it repeatedly, but never as healer. It's a tough job without DD'ing, always having to weigh which spell to use (though Scholar has that easier than White Mage), having to bank your time so that you aren't stuck casting one spell when you really need to cast something else. Having to jam the healing cause you needed to move and someone else didn't.

I'm sorry to hear you had problems with healing, it's clearly not for everyone. I have personally healed every dungeon and most raids in this game. I've mostly done this as a SCH, but some as a WHM. The only times in a dungeon when DPSing is difficult are when there are very large pulls - but even then you can swiftcast Holy for aoe stun, throw up Aero III, holy and swap back out of cleric stance to keep healing. If you were to just heal and never DPS in every dungeon, I would wager that you'd spend about 70% of your time not doing anything.


(EDIT I reached my maximum daily posts already?)

Heh, so my job as Ninja is to protect other people? Interesting to say the least. "I" thought I was just there to make things dead. I shall keep that in mind in the future. Maybe I'll try smokescreening the tank so he doesn't come to harm.

All of our jobs are to protect people, we are the Warriors of Light. However, I feel you have vastly over simplified the Ninja quest line.

Adding to my post again (Wish I could just reply, this limit is lame). I'm not really sure why you are so stubborn and set on playing to the worst possible level. I'm also not sure why you are against having an adult conversation on the whole thing. I'll admit, I have no idea what the 50-60 quest line is for Ninja, but each quest line I have done teaches you how to play your job and how to use your new skills. This includes teaching healers both how to heal and how to DPS.

[Zojha]

Your job is defined by your job quest lines and your skills that you're given.

Heh, so my job as Ninja is to protect other people? Interesting to say the least. "I" thought I was just there to make things dead. I shall keep that in mind in the future. Maybe I'll try smokescreening the tank so he doesn't come to harm.

However, I feel you have vastly over simplified the Ninja quest line.

Hey, it's what the entirety of 50-60 revolves around. Tanking is (apparently) integral to my job and from now on, I shall refer to your post whenever someone tells me it's not.

After all, I don't want to be labeled a bad player for ignoring what my class quests taught me.


Now "I" know that this reasoning is ricidulous. I just wonder when you start to question it.

[CatchaFire420]

It is hard to put my finger on why this is happening more and more, but my perspective is this: The majority of players are strictly average or below average, and white knighting their lack skill or ability is rather annoying when it comes to doing EX content. I have been so frustrated with the lack of commitment from not only DPS but the lazy standing doing nothing healers that only contribute to the long drawn out dungeons I have to do over and over and over.

Some one earlier mentioned the difference between a 21 minute run versus a 40 min run is an extra hour I have to spend in a dungeon every 3 dungeons. I have better things to be doing than carrying a bunch of lazy players.

[Kazrah]

I only dps on my astrologian in dungeons because some idiot dps is afk auto-attacking.....

[Eothas]

I can not understand healers that don't DPS or at least try to DPS, if Cleric Stance did not exist, I would have died of boredom already.

If we have to do only the bare minimum to do our "jobs", then tanks don't need to use defensive CDs and DPSs only need to use their first skill over and over again.

I'll quote a post I did a while back:

In my opinion, a healer that doesn't DPS when they are familiar with the content are just being lazy or bad. I have seen tanks doing their best, using defensive CDs, self-healing, mitigating alot of damage while the healer was just there, looking pretty wandering around, doing nothing. I never said anything to these healers, but IMO they are not good at all.

Excuse-me, but using cure II every 7 seconds is not doing a healers job, it's just being lazy. If you are there needing to heal a lot, using AoE heals, dispelling debuffs, dodging mechanics and keeping the party alive and doesn't have time to DPS, then sure, you are doing your primary job and thats great. but if you are in a simpler content and you have alot of time to DPS and don't do it, to me you are the same as a DPS that do only 300 DPS while they could be doing 1000+.

When I am healing, I always try to contribute with some DPS, not only because it makes the run go faster, but because it's fun aswell.

[Werhusky]

Had a DRG in almost full i210 mistbeak gear in Diadem HM (and only DRG stuff dropped with even good stats).... If there hadn't been an occasional B4B and life Surge I had guessed he is afk following... never using other CDs not even a Heavy Thrust up.... note that guy had all classes on 60 >.>
but I cannot say much to auto attacks but maybe the reason I get commis on my DPS classes while totally derping and failing base rotations and getting a comment like "DPS is good"? lol

[AlexiIvaniskavich]

...It's a trinity game. There are people whose job is to make sure the bad guy doesn't attack the squishies, there are people whose job is to make the bad guy die and there are people whose job is to keep all the other guys alive.

Those are the so called "roles" you queue up for. You cannot beat content with the entire party only healing and that is exactly why there are tank and DPS slots. If you feel like filling more than one role, that's a commendable effort, but not part of your job. Your job is clearly defined by your role.....

Again, you are listing only the primary role for the specific class. Yes I have a role as a tank, that if I do not do, makes everyone else’s role much harder. Holding agro and using cool downs is not my only role in any content. I ask you specifically, would you consider me “performing my role” if I were simply spamming flash to hold hate and using cool downs? I sure as hell wouldn’t.

Your PRIMARY job is tied to the class you queued up as. This does not mean this is your only responsibility.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhCmuA6Qvog Ifrit ex 8 healer clear for giggles. Sure it’s unsynched and overgeared, but it is also 8 healers both healing AND dpsing. --- (referencing the tounge in cheek comment that, yes was irrelevant )

snip

“job” is in reference to the original quote by Laerune, (which I have now put in bold to avoid further misinterpretation)

Not once did I claim healing was easy. If you read the entire post, you would also realize that I was excluding points in fights which crap out damage and crazy healing must occur.
I specifically refer to points in a fight where mass damage is not going out , the tank is not taking extra damage due to a tank buster, and you don’t have to cast a heal on the tank but once every 10 seconds. When these moments occur, why do you get 3 GCD’s to AFK? Are you saying it is impossible to spend 1 GCD on a dot during these points? I don’t demand that you as a healer use all available gcd’s to dps when you aren’t needed to heal. I don’t even care if you don’t even go into cleric stance to drop your dot. I don’t expect my healers to crank out insane DPS, but I expect you to do something once in a while when you aren’t directly healing.

[VanilleFang]

snip.

Like everything else healing takes practice... Healing isn't for everyone, just like tanking and playing a damage dealer.

And you're more appreciative of a healer who does nothing when they don't need to heal? And seriously, you are going to use a bad healer trying to DPS as an example? Alright. That seems completely fair. A good healer is better than both things you have mentioned. Healing damage "immediately" isn't always required and a healer should be able to determine when healing is truly needed. Dodging AoEs is everyone's responsibility, and if you aren't doing it it isn't the healers responsibility to correct your mistake. If everyone did what they were supposed to then the healer should have plenty of time to heal the tank and DPS. Outside unavoidable damage DPS can generally be ignored for a bit, or given a HoT.

You have absolutely no idea how a good healer works in FFXIV. That much is clear. If you think a healer standing around is getting their healing "ready" then you clearly don't understand the job. A healer should not be healing a tank just because they lost 5% of their HP. That's a waste of resources and is pure laziness or inexperience. Healers should be able to judge the situation and react, or predict, accordingly. If someone makes a mistake it is not on the healer to rectify it, but they can try to help with quick reactions.

[Rivxkobe]

Snip

This may be from your experience but its a very narrow minded, and frankly, ignorant view of healers. Again, as other's have said, if you are a healer and just standing around doing nothing most of the time or are casting healing spells every 2.5-4 seconds healing probably isn't for you. There is nothing fun bout just standing around waiting for the rest of your team to take damage and kill the enemies, especially when you have tools to make both of these things easier.

And I'm sorry, but using "this healer did this and this healer did that so its better if a healer just waits on hand and foot for when we need them" is a garbage argument. Bad healer's are not an argument against the actual full potential of the job. And I'm sorry that you are more "appreciative" of a healer that does nothing 50%-70% of the time (in most dungeons).

Also just because a tank falls below 50% health, or a healer is casting an attack spell doesn't mean they don't know what they are doing. Besides, I'd first go and blame a Tank for dying in the time it takes for a Healer to get a healing spell off (in reference to this: "letting the tank die because they waiting out casting times") since most spells are all on the GCD, and many are instant, or the healer WAS bad (for a different reason) and should have known better because the tank wasn't geared well enough to take 2-3 hits.

How, anyway, is standing around 'fun' anyway? How is not using your kit to the full potential not fun? Your first point and your many point after that actually contradict eachother. Since, the goal for everyone is to have fun yet you are saying that healers should play this way because... You see what I'm saying?