Pretending to dps in dungeons, is this a new fad?

[LurkerREM]

The problem with reading on forums is misinformation. I lucked out on Dragoon as someone put up a priority system instead of a rotation, and that is wonderful when level sync neuters you and takes away key abilities instead of just weakening them.

[Rivxkobe]

That DPS that uses Virus or Eye For Eye or helps healing when the Healer is having troubles keeping everyone alive is a amazing player. The Tanks that contributes by doing alot of damage, they are amazing players.

Let's get something straight here.

A BLK or SMN who Virus or E4E are great, and a SMN who rezzes is great too. But any DPS who thinks the Healer needs help and thinks their Physicks are helping (you know, more than their DPS would be) are bad, just plain bad.

[Odett]

The problem with reading on forums is misinformation. I lucked out on Dragoon as someone put up a priority system instead of a rotation, and that is wonderful when level sync neuters you and takes away key abilities instead of just weakening them.

A rotation is just an ideal way of handling your priority system. Every job has a priority system and you can correctly execute a good rotation when you understand why you're using the skills you're using, and why you're using them in the order you're using them. Blindly using a set of skills without knowing "why" is very foolish, so I definitely agree with you.

[Eidolon]

Let's get something straight here.

A BLK or SMN who Virus or E4E are great, and a SMN who rezzes is great too. But any DPS who thinks the Healer needs help and thinks their Physicks are helping (you know, more than their DPS would be) are bad, just plain bad.

I'd go so far as to say the BLM's/SMN's who use Eye for an Eye without discussing it with the healer are more of a pain than anything else.

Keep in mind, virus applies antibodies. I had a BLM Who used Virus as part of a rotation so he'd mitigate auto attacks. Then a tank buster came. Which I couldn't mitigate because Black Mage. >

[Kosmos992k]

Interesting, a topic about dealing with poor damage output from damage dealers, and it's turned into yet another feeding frenzy attacking a healer that would prefer to be a healer....

Notice that this healer has been roundly criticized by many, essentially saying that they are a bad player. Then there was the reference to lodestone information about their main class, and further belittling criticism using that information, accusations of being lazy, along with the obligatory Sylphie meme and of course a DPS stating that the best way to prevent the party from dying is to kill things faster.

Why is it that some just *have* to criticize and belittle a healer, because they are not playing a hybrid role of damage dealing healer, and don't want to? The topic was primarily about Damage Dealers in dungeons standing around doing more or less nothing but base attacks and auto attacks. So why is a healer being attacked because they don't both heal and make up for crap damage dealers?

As Zojha pointed out, this is a trinity based game, healers are meant to be there to heal, tanks are there to tank and damage dealers are there to kill stuff. It's pretty simple really. The only time tanks and healers need to stance dance into their DPS stance to push DPS is in end-game. If the damage dealers in the party are so deplorable that even in a regular dungeon the extra DPS from healers and tanks is *needed* to complete the dungeon, it's not the fault of the healer or tank. If a healer finds time to add some extra DPS to their play, that's great, but it's not expected. If a tank can manage their cool downs and stance to safely boost their damage output, that's nice too, but it's also optional.

The truth is that in regular dungeons (which is what the OP talks about) if the DPS are even just average, the dungeon can be cleared without any additional help from healers or tanks. If healers are required to DPS because the damage dealers are crap, so be it. But let's not castigate the healer for wanting to be a healer when the actual problem is that the damage dealers would apparently prefer to play the role of a fallen tree in the forest.

The solution to lazy, no good damage dealers is not demanding more of healers and tanks. Their DPS is and always should be optional. Quite why anyone feels it's necessary or appropriate to attack other players over something that is optional is beyond me, but it is symptomatic of the anger, lack of respect, poor cooperation and intolerance that makes the English speaking player community so rewarding to be a part of....

The solution to deplorable damage dealers is to ask them to do better, and if they don't and don't care, kick them. As was pointed out in another post, if your damage dealers are sitting on a near full TP bar, and things are dying slowly, then it's time to tell them to put their big boy trousers on and do their damned job; if they can't be bothered to do so, kick them.

In a topic about dealing with lazy damage dealers not doing their job, the answer is not to criticize good tanks and healers for not doing more. All that does is excuse crap damage dealers and alienate even more healers and tanks which is not exactly something we need to be doing.

[Kaurie]

I'd go so far as to say the BLM's/SMN's who use Eye for an Eye without discussing it with the healer are more of a pain than anything else.

Keep in mind, virus applies antibodies. I had a BLM Who used Virus as part of a rotation so he'd mitigate auto attacks. Then a tank buster came. Which I couldn't mitigate because Black Mage. >

Eye for an Eye won't prevent anything, and if you have 2 healers and 2 casters applying it, there can be 100% up time. This is definitely a good one to coordinate, but not necessary to.

Virus, I agree with. Though, in part, the issue is due to a lack of understanding of the fight. i.e. I will sometimes apply virus without discussion with the healers, because I know that generally healers use virus at X time or on Y mob, and I know a tank buster is coming up. My virus in those instances is not necessary, but it can help ease the load a little.

Interesting, a topic about dealing with poor damage output from damage dealers, and it's turned into yet another feeding frenzy attacking a healer that would prefer to be a healer....

Notice that this healer has been roundly criticized by many, essentially saying that they are a bad player. Then there was the reference to lodestone information about their main class, and further belittling criticism using that information, accusations of being lazy, along with the obligatory Sylphie meme and of course a DPS stating that the best way to prevent the party from dying is to kill things faster.

Why is it that some just *have* to criticize and belittle a healer, because they are not playing a hybrid role of damage dealing healer, and don't want to? The topic was primarily about Damage Dealers in dungeons standing around doing more or less nothing but base attacks and auto attacks. So why is a healer being attacked because they don't both heal and make up for crap damage dealers?

As Zojha pointed out, this is a trinity based game, healers are meant to be there to heal, tanks are there to tank and damage dealers are there to kill stuff. It's pretty simple really. The only time tanks and healers need to stance dance into their DPS stance to push DPS is in end-game. If the damage dealers in the party are so deplorable that even in a regular dungeon the extra DPS from healers and tanks is *needed* to complete the dungeon, it's not the fault of the healer or tank. If a healer finds time to add some extra DPS to their play, that's great, but it's not expected. If a tank can manage their cool downs and stance to safely boost their damage output, that's nice too, but it's also optional.

The truth is that in regular dungeons (which is what the OP talks about) if the DPS are even just average, the dungeon can be cleared without any additional help from healers or tanks. If healers are required to DPS because the damage dealers are crap, so be it. But let's not castigate the healer for wanting to be a healer when the actual problem is that the damage dealers would apparently prefer to play the role of a fallen tree in the forest.

The solution to lazy, no good damage dealers is not demanding more of healers and tanks. Their DPS is and always should be optional. Quite why anyone feels it's necessary or appropriate to attack other players over something that is optional is beyond me, but it is symptomatic of the anger, lack of respect, poor cooperation and intolerance that makes the English speaking player community so rewarding to be a part of....

The solution to deplorable damage dealers is to ask them to do better, and if they don't and don't care, kick them. As was pointed out in another post, if your damage dealers are sitting on a near full TP bar, and things are dying slowly, then it's time to tell them to put their big boy trousers on and do their damned job; if they can't be bothered to do so, kick them.

In a topic about dealing with lazy damage dealers not doing their job, the answer is not to criticize good tanks and healers for not doing more. All that does is excuse crap damage dealers and alienate even more healers and tanks which is not exactly something we need to be doing.

It was their choice to exclaim that they don't want to do damage and project that sentiment on the rest of us. We argued back of why this makes one a bad player.

I am not sure how it turned around on healers, and I agree we did go off topic, but imo (s)he brought it upon him/herself by making such a wild proclamation.

[Pells]

I don't really care either way if a healer helps DPS or not, but my point was that the extra damage does help drop the mobs faster which in turn helps the group survive. As annoying as it is to see lazy DPS, it can also be annoying to see a healer that just stands there and tosses occasional heals just to "keep people alive". If you're really invested in the group''s survival then there are more ways to help than just doing the very basic function of your job - and that applies to everyone, not just healers.

I find that when I heal, how much damage I do is directly related to how skilled the tank is. Sometimes I can DPS the whole run; sometimes I just can't risk it without someone dropping dead. And if I'm struggling with a bad tank, I am vary unlikely to be courteous to some lippy dps harping on me to do their job for them.

[Kosmos992k]

It was their choice to exclaim that they don't want to do damage and project that sentiment on the rest of us. We argued back of why this makes one a bad player.

I am not sure how it turned around on healers, and I agree we did go off topic, but imo (s)he brought it upon him/herself by making such a wild proclamation.

No, please stop. You're continuing a witch hunt against a healer for wanting to heal. They didn't say they'd never do any damage, they simply said that if they wanted to be a damage dealer they'd play that job. That player is probably wondering what the hell they did to deserve the degree of hostility they've experienced in this thread.

The heart of this issue is not a healer wanting to heal without having, what appears to be (based on the comments of many here), a mandatory damage dealing requirement in addition to the responsibility of healing. The heart of the issue is poor damage output by damage dealers. Why do we need to depend on the healer to increase their damage output in regular dungeons? If this was a discussion about end-game or even EX content, then yeah, there is a point to be argued, but that's a different discussion.

[Eidolon]

Eye for an Eye won't prevent anything, and if you have 2 healers and 2 casters applying it, there can be 100% up time. This is definitely a good one to coordinate, but not necessary to.

Virus, I agree with. Though, in part, the issue is due to a lack of understanding of the fight. i.e. I will sometimes apply virus without discussion with the healers, because I know that generally healers use virus at X time or on Y mob, and I know a tank buster is coming up. My virus in those instances is not necessary, but it can help ease the load a little.

Meant to type virus, sorry. lol

[Roll]

The game never tells you that being a healer = dps/healer hybrid.

Pretty sure the game tells you you're a healer/dps hybrid when:
*Conjurer's first spell is Stone and you learn Cleric's Stance at lvl 6
*Arcanists first spells are Ruin and Bio

Good luck trying to beat class and job quests without Cleric's Stance and DPSing if all you wanna do is heal.

Here's the bread and butter to make DPSing as a healer completely viable and not so stressful:

White Mage:
Stoneskin prepull
Divine Seal+Regen+Asylum(Medica2 if you want but usually Divine Seal Regen does the trick) Eye for an Eye, Virus
BAM! You're good to DPS with Holy's, Aero3, Assize, Stone3 etc.

Scholar:
Adloquium+Stoneskin prepull
Rouse+Fairy doing it's thing, Eye for an Eye, Virus
BAM! Shadow Flare, DoT's, etc.

Astrologian:
Stoneskin+Aspected Benefic(Noct) prepull, switch to Diurnal Sect before battle starts
Synastry tank+Aspected Benefic(Diurnal)+Collective Unconcious(Aspected Helios(Diurnal) if you want but the previous things should be fine) Disable. Optional:Time Dilation to extend the duration of the HoT's/Card buff.
BAM! Free to DPS with Gravity, Dot's, Malefic2 etc.

These are just examples of how I've managed to stance dance with no problems.