The new raiding meta is making me want to quit.

[Eidolon]

To the two scholars posting about it - I've never seen it, but I definitely appreciate the input on it. I also tend to avoid Scholars like the plague because more often than not, there's a healing issue somewhere and they tend to say "Sorry I was dps'ing' which just makes me roll my eyes.

Well, to each their own experience on it - I'll have to try out scholar's sometime.

Why is anyone upset that the game requires tanks and healers to dps?

No one thinks that it's bad for Tanks/Healers to add DPS to the fight. It's moreso the meta that demands the Tanks/Healers to solely DPS that people dislike. This meta wherein Warriors are trying to tank in Deliverance, and then are surprised when Sword oath Holy Blade Dance one shots them, or a Dark Knight without grit "Well I had shadowskin up" for a one-shot.

[MrCookTM]

I don't know what happened on SE's end, but now that everyone *demands* so much out of tanks and healers, it's started to push me away from the game. I blame savage and it's extremely high difficulty, and find this sort of community meta disgusting when healers are getting kicked for not doing enough damage. Tanks too. What ever happened to healers healing and tanks tanking? Healer/tank dps was always supposed to be a solo thing or a luxury to good, well geared groups.

This has NEVER been a luxury for "well geared" groups, quite the opposite, it has been a neccesity for groups going into high end content undergeared. Look at the parses of early T13 kills in i110 or savage second coil when it was new. What should I say, welcome to savage. This content requires every player to play his job to it's full potential, which includes tanks/healers dps'ing as well as dps coordinating their utility (be it virus, trick attack or whatever) with the rest of the group while handling mechanics properly and doing really good dps. If you don't like it, it's not for you. Easy as that. Now you can complain that SE botched on the midcore part this raiding tier, but that's a different pony and certainly not what you said.

[LunnaRavenheart]

To the two scholars posting about it - I've never seen it, but I definitely appreciate the input on it. I also tend to avoid Scholars like the plague because more often than not, there's a healing issue somewhere and they tend to say "Sorry I was dps'ing' which just makes me roll my eyes.

Well, to each their own experience on it - I'll have to try out scholar's sometime.



No one thinks that it's bad for Tanks/Healers to add DPS to the fight. It's moreso the meta that demands the Tanks/Healers to solely DPS that people dislike. This meta wherein Warriors are trying to tank in Deliverance, and then are surprised when Sword oath Holy Blade Dance one shots them, or a Dark Knight without grit "Well I had shadowskin up" for a one-shot.

Unfortunately most of fights in raids are designed way that second healer is only helping with tank buster or some huge dmg, otherwise 80% cleric stance. And its not only because you need dmg but also because there is nothing much to heal as second healer. Btw thordan is pretty much solo heal fight. By solo heal I mean solo healable by whm maybe as AST too. AST solo heal should be ultimate there cos you dont need to waste tank lb after meteor phase.

Anyway regarding you comment about "sword knight". He should be always "tanked" in Deliverance and on Holy Blade Dance your tank should use Holmgang. Its most optimal way to do it that way.

[KarstenS]

Not only do you have healing magic, you also have attack magic.

Have you ever leveled a holy priest in WoW (vanilla)?

Questing and XP grind was a pain compared to other classes because the lack of damage output.

[KarstenS]

cos you dont need to waste tank lb after meteor phase.

Tasnk LB? For what?

[LunnaRavenheart]

Tasnk LB? For what?

Some people tend to die on Knight LB after meteors when you solohealing as whm, cos you dont have scholar, so no succor and sacred soil. You can stoneskin people but you have limited time (pala can help if you have any) but sometimes its still not enough.

But i think its not valid in ilvl210.

[Kosmos992k]

Unfortunately most of fights in raids are designed way that second healer is only helping with tank buster or some huge dmg, otherwise 80% cleric stance. And its not only because you need dmg but also because there is nothing much to heal as second healer. Btw thordan is pretty much solo heal fight. By solo heal I mean solo healable by whm maybe as AST too. AST solo heal should be ultimate there cos you dont need to waste tank lb after meteor phase.

Actually as several people have posted (including quotes from Yoshi-P), the raids are balance around the DPS and tank damage, healer damage is not taken into account. I believe that the tank damage considered in a solo boss fight is what you'd get from 1 tank in DPS stance and 1 in tank stance. if people challenge the content while undergeared, which the leading edge players will, then tank and healer damage becomes more important to help fill the gearing gap.

Your mentality where "I get to play the way I want to, screw you and your advice" is at the core of why the NA DF and PF scene is floundering. Rather than embrace a communal and mutual respect, you embrace rugged and selfish individualism.

That's a steaming pile of BS IMHO. You don't get to tell others how to play, at all. I'll tell you why the NA DF and PF scene is floundering, it's because the raiding mentality (aka the current meta) has infected a lot of wannabe raiders and wannabe world first raiders who are not in fact what they want to be. But those players in-turn enforce the end-game meta on players who will NEVER set foot in end-game or raiding - because they don't want to. It makes for a hostile environment. Several of my best in-game friends are long time raiders who've quit the scene because in their opinion, the NA raiding community has become toxic, due to this very issue. The never ending grind of the gear treadmill and raid farming didn't help either.

Rugged/selfish individualism my ass. More like rugged and selfish conformists attempting to make others conform as well. In a sense you're nothing more than a fashion victim falling for the latest fashion (game meta), demanding everyone else become a sheep like you.

[Kosmos992k]

They did try to block people from clearing so fast because of how fast the old raids wer it was stated that they did not want that.

And yes they weren't meant to be cleared at entry lvl gear why would they be? Because people wer so impatient to get world first the rest of us have to suffer the meta of.

DPSDPSDPSDPSDPSDPSDPSDPSDPSDPSDPSDPSDPS WHATS MY NUMBERS? DPSDPSDPS ECT.

Indeed, I still don't understand why the methods used by world first groups have to be stuffed down our throats by the rest of the raiding community riding on their coat tails...

I am not getting angry since I know how to play the 5 jobs I focus on very well and also being in one of the most amazing FC's on my server. But as per you comment, why does not being geared efficiently according to you effect the majority of the players base? (casuals and Midcore) Most of these players will never take a step into Savage, does that give you or anyone including me the right to disrespect/troll/insult them just because they play the game the way they want to play? How does that not make sense to you? And sorry to burst your bubble but doing research and mastering your job is not the key to a MMO experience, its the Social aspect of the game that makes it into a Massively Multiplayer Online Game. If you need to play something that is about playing the perfect game or min/maxing your toon, single player games like Dark Souls is out there for you to play....not MMO's!

There are not enough up votes in my browser, but take them all anyway, this is a great illustration of the problem this game faces in this regard, it's not the fault of the game, as ever it's the players and how they act.

[Miscreant]

snip

Why does every player who clearly doesn't raid use this quote? If your in i210 then sure maybe you can loose the healer dps, but anyone whos been into the later floors of Savage knows that healer+tank dps is needed.

For the Tank LB in the solo heal of Thordan, you guys do know that the ultimate gets stronger with every death, if your party doesn't have a death before the ultimate you should be fine without an LB I imagine, it's hard to have Stone Skin up for it though as his series of blast backs attack will knock it off just before.

[LunnaRavenheart]

For the Tank LB in the solo heal of Thordan, you guys do know that the ultimate gets stronger with every death, if your party doesn't have a death before the ultimate you should be fine without an LB I imagine, it's hard to have Stone Skin up for it though as his series of blast backs attack will knock it off just before.

Yeah I checked the logs, its only issue when players have lower gear. Or lb over 65 or both .