The new raiding meta is making me want to quit.

[Brian_]

I originally come from Gilgamesh. I'm familiar with AKS and a number of people in that FC. They're not a progression FC. They're a social FC. While that's fine and all, being a part of AKS is not an indicator of player skill. I only transferred to Tonberry a few months ago because the server was more active during my playing hours.

So, to address your point as a whole, let me just tell you the difference between the two servers, a difference that is at the core of the NA vs. JP discussion happening recently.

Your mentality where "I get to play the way I want to, screw you and your advice" is at the core of why the NA DF and PF scene is floundering. Rather than embrace a communal and mutual respect, you embrace rugged and selfish individualism. When someone tells me I'm not doing something right, I listen. I don't outright reject what they say as false unless I truly know it to be so or dismiss it on the pretense of selfishness. Is that so foreign a concept? They aren't disrespecting me by telling me I'm gearing my character wrong. If what they say is the truth, then they're trying to help.

And so, you talk about the social aspect of the game. How is it social to be so stubborn and close-minded that you so readily reject anything but your own views of the game and how it should be played? How is it social to be so selfish and individualistic? How does it help the overall community when you refuse to be a better player because screw other people? How does it help anyone to foster an environment where mediocrity is the norm? How is it that such a stance is killing an entire social system of the game if it's supposed to indicate positive social behavior?

And so you look at the DF and PF situation on JP servers. Because people know how to play their classes the optimized and effective way through this mutual process of learning, you have less drama and toxicity and more time to spend on the things that matter -- the actual content and the positive social interactions within. Because more people are actually proficient at their role, even when you get a few people who are less proficient, it doesn't cause any drama because you still clear casual and mid-core content just fine. Instead of spending your time flaming each other over who is doing what wrong, you can spend your time having fun. Why? Because everyone respects everyone's time on equal terms.

But no, screw other people. I pay the same subscription fee as them so screw them.

[Brian_]

Active mitigation , in other games is used and its awesome , WAR is kinda already there with inner beast , the rotation of tanks isnt about dps is about mitigating MORE while doing damage...but u wont see combos ending in dots or just raw dmg , the ending combos end with stoneskin effects , blocks , healing , hp drains (lifetaps ) , or more dodge/parry/ for a few seconds.... hell u could give paladin active blocks too , press this button to block all the attacks (front) , drain MP every second...and move at 50% speed.

Feeling like u have some control on your own mititigation outside huge CDs is what makes tanks fun in other games , because using X cd on Y boss ability isnt exciting nor fun...

Well, like you said, this game already has active mitigation. Almost all of FFXIV's mitigation is active. A lot of what you just listed already exists in some way in the game. There are HP-leeching combo finishers. The two tanks that use MP both have MP-regen attacks. Each tank has combo finisher debuffs that effectively reduce damage intake. WAR gains parry as they build stacks through their combos. PLD has Sheltron, an activated guaranteed block. All the activated defensive CDs in this game are activated mitigation.

If anything, most of the passive mitigation in FFXIV is garbage. Defense and magic defense obviously matter, HP is only effective up to a certain threshold, parry / block are pretty lackluster, and dodge is essentially irrelevant in harder content.

Like... I'm not trying to offend you, but the irony of your post is really blatant.

[Hellboy-sa]

Lets face it though, how boring would tanking be without the DPS in this game. I used to main paladin back through BCOB/SCOB/FCOB and it was a snoozefest and I switched to monk in HW for that reason. Even started doing T13 with no HUD just because it wasn't needed I was on auto pilot for 99% of it. Threat generation was easy and defensive cooldowns came down to a rotation anyway based on tank buster timings so there was no challenge.

i dont know if you did try OT T13 but it was more interesting than PLD MT job which i fall asleep in that fight

[Kallera]

I think they need to improve upon the stats for healing and tanking, and maybe separate healing stats from dps.

The reason the meta is the way it is is because dps, even at the top of their game, lack the numbers to get through the content with just their participation, and Alex has a lot of dps checks. Unless the individual uses of the trinity get enhanced. We will continue to see a melting pot of dps being the key factor.

I don't like it either, sadly, it can't just be handwaved as a problem of dps skill. The whole game is skewed towards this.

[Dererk]

Having cleared AS3 week 2 before esoteric weapons, there is no way they didn't tune it without tank and healer dps in mind at entry level ilvls. If your whole team is i200+ then maybe, but at entry gear levels, your tanks and healers have to go ham or you die to the enrage guaranteed.

I don't want to jump to conclusions, but... what if they actually tried to lock players from clears before they gear up? Not the best idea ever, but it kinda makes sense.

They did try to block people from clearing so fast because of how fast the old raids wer it was stated that they did not want that.

And yes they weren't meant to be cleared at entry lvl gear why would they be? Because people wer so impatient to get world first the rest of us have to suffer the meta of.

DPSDPSDPSDPSDPSDPSDPSDPSDPSDPSDPSDPSDPS WHATS MY NUMBERS? DPSDPSDPS ECT.

[Tint]

Having cleared AS3 week 2 before esoteric weapons, there is no way they didn't tune it without tank and healer dps in mind at entry level ilvls. If your whole team is i200+ then maybe, but at entry gear levels, your tanks and healers have to go ham or you die to the enrage guaranteed.

what is the entry gear lvl? as i know alex savage has no entry ilvl...

[Jamein]

i dont know if you did try OT T13 but it was more interesting than PLD MT job which i fall asleep in that fight

I OT'd it a fair amount as well, then I switched over to Monk, was far more engaging when playing a DPS class than a tank class sadly.

[LunnaRavenheart]

I would love to see a SCH doing 1k DPS on Phase 1 of Thordan-EX. Would you possibly have any proof to back this?

I mostly ask to see if you have a valid perspective on it - you don't have the clear, and from all the times I've had my friends tell me what people were pulling, healers were -never- near 1k DPS, so it's definitely an interesting thing that crosses my mind.

I'm told my DRG pushes 1,350-1,550 DPS on Phase 1. That's at about i206 with the 205 weapon.
I notice DPS tend to float around 1,000-1,300 at i200 entry requirement.

Pretty much possible, i am doing like 850 without pots and food stable, but depends also on broil and energy drain misses.
Here is rotation if you are scholar for p1:
Prepull -> Aetherflow, Adlo+Eye on warr(or tank), Deployment tacts, Cleric Stance, Shadow flare, Precast Bio II so it hit boss when pulled
Pull -> Energy drain, Miasma, Energy Drain, Bio, Energy Drain, Refresh Aetherflow, Airo, Energy Drain, Broil, Energy Drain, Broil, Energy Drain.
Keep all dots and shadow flare up, broil as much as possible, energy drain 9x times during p1.

Also some tips: you can eat 1 meteor and take dmg, avoid conal aoe by moving to savespot as p8( do not run behind boss).
If you are stacking on dmg share ability, recast your dot while running if its needed or use ruin II if all dots are up.

Thordan is pretty much solohealable fight and you should be able ending up fight with around 450-500 dps as scholar.

[MugenMugetsu]

Why is anyone upset that the game requires tanks and healers to dps? As a tank you have attacks that are meant to do damage which, by doing more damage, increases your enmity. As a healer, you are a mage. Not only do you have healing magic, you also have attack magic. Are we complaining because we want healers to stand around and do nothing when heals are not needed? Are we complaining because the game requires you to be more engaged and actually have to use attack magic as a healer?

I don't understand what the problem is. I main tank. I strive to do as much damage as possible. I prefer that healers also help with DPS to make runs go smoother, and faster. Sure, the healer could not DPS and fights could go on longer requiring more work from everyone. However, isn't it better when the healers DPS as well, mobs die faster, and less healing is required?

Is it not an indication that you're a good player, very proficient at your job, and willing to put max effort into helping your group when, as a healer, you also strive to put out as much DPS as possible?

I don't think SE gave healers attack magic only to be used when soloing, and then to sit idle and not be used when running group content. Then again, maybe I'm confused and have unrealistic expectations of other players and how the game is meant to be played? ø.Øa

[Miscreant]

Doing 1k+ in P1 of Thordan Ex is perfectly doable, I think I've hit 1065 as a personal best in that phase, I have accuracy melds and use X-potions of Mind, Grilled Sweetfish and my Bard plays Foes, you just have to be lucky with not having to move for mechanics and your gcds lining up well with Gaze, time your instacasts (Bio, Aero, Ruin II) with when you have to move.

For the main subject of this thread...I like the hybrid of healing and dpsing and see no problem with the current raiding meta, I've enjoyed Savage for the most part A2-4 are horribly designed fights but A3 was shear genius, one of the best designed fights I've ever played.