I don't want to tank dungeons anymore...

[Sicno]

Not really. "I can hold the group hostage so we're doing things my way" is not a good point, or something that should be encouraged.

...I think I addressed this many pages ago

You have the wrong idea of what's "holding a group hostage". Standing still while refusing to progress as a way of revenge or trolling or because they went for a smoke or because they had to attend to IRL stuff for a long time is holding the group hostage. Progressing at normal pace but not as fast as expected in the current "meta" is not.

[SonKevin]

And FYI, in my experience, I've had to wait 10 to 15 minutes, not over an hour for a new queue lol. But then again, I very rarely leave duties, and try to see it to completion. If it's going to be long and boring, I usually pop on netflix or crunchyroll and watch something as we proceed.

Really? Only 10-15 minutes after you leave? So in reality that's 40-45 minutes which makes my hour more likely and it also depends on what time you're waiting for queues.

Don't bring in Alex or Savage. The players we're talking about probably around running end game stuff like that. They probably will never run stuff like that. Most people don't touch that stuff. Which might explain a couple things about the game.

[Suirieko]

Funny we should talk about holding groups "hostages."

One of the bigger changes to DF, overtime, was increasing the penalty to leaving/withdrawing, was due to a great number of tanks leaving just because they're not satisfied with the dungeons that get rolled out. This was very problematic when the original Pharos Sirius came out.. 7 times out of 10, the tank would just up and leave when they land that place. This situation repeated when Steps of Faith would come out and it would frequently turns up in trial roulette, and what do tanks do? "Lol. I'm the tank, I'm rare, I don't have to do this." *leaves duty*.

[Atoli]

This whole notion that only people who play tanks get any say in the matter annoys the heck out of me, as well as the reply I've seen in this thread again and again: "Tank it yourself if you know so much better."
No.
It has nothing to do with the community, when I DO tank I actually have very enjoyable experiences 99% of the time. I just don't enjoy it. It's a playstyle that makes me uncomfortable (partially because I hate getting hit, partially because I hate having to rely on others to survive). That does NOT mean I shouldn't get any say in how our party runs the dungeon when I play as healer or dps. My voice matters just as much as everyone else's and if most people in the party, regardless of their job, want a faster run, AND it is possible without wiping, then it's the tank's job to go with that majority.

It's the same with healers dpsing. Yeah, I COULD stand around and do nothing 70% of the dungeon run, because there is no need to heal more often than that. But to let everyone have an enjoyable experience, I dps whenever I have the leeway to do so. Not doing so would be selfish. Tanks who slow the party down even when they could easily go faster are just as selfishly lazy as healers who refuse to dps. The only difference is that people let tanks get away with it because they are so rare that most people rather stick with a lazy or bad tank than to kick him and risk not getting a new one for half an hour, which of course reinforces that undesirable behaviour.

[Malevicton]

...I think I addressed this many pages ago

There's no such thing as a normal pace. If anything were, it'd probably be the meta lol

If people are still gonna argue that slow pulls are how the devs designed it, then come with a dev quote.

[SonKevin]

Funny we should talk about holding groups "hostages."

One of the bigger changes to DF, overtime, was increasing the penalty to leaving/withdrawing, was due to a great number of tanks leaving just because they're not satisfied with the dungeons that get rolled out. This was very problematic when the original Pharos Sirius came out.. 7 times out of 10, the tank would just up and leave when they land that place. This situation repeated when Steps of Faith would come out and it would frequently turns up in trial roulette, and what do tanks do? "Lol. I'm the tank, I'm rare, I don't have to do this." *leaves duty*.

Really? You think that was just tanks leaving those duties? That's pretty pathetic.

[Suirieko]

Really? Only 10-15 minutes after you leave? So in reality that's 40-45 minutes which makes my hour more likely and it also depends on what time you're waiting for queues.

Don't bring in Alex or Savage. The players we're talking about probably around running end game stuff like that. They probably will never run stuff like that. Most people don't touch that stuff. Which might explain a couple things about the game.

That's cute. I see a lot of people doing that, and lot of people continuing to do that. God forbid SE gives us some challenging instead of continuously coddling to new players. God forbid tanks have to deal with 10 mobs in challenging situations.


They called it a "challenge" for a reason, and a large group of mobs tests how many mobs a tank can hold, as well as how well the healer can heal the tank, as well as how fast the DDs kill the mobs.

Where I come from, we call that teamwork.

[Skivvy]

The point you praised was this: "Go ahead and pull mobs ahead of me when I'm tanking. I have other things to do and don't mind leaving. How's that extra time waiting fora replacement tank working for your speed run now?" I get that people pulling ahead is annoying, but it's a minor annoyance at worst. Run up and unleash, everything's good again. If you're going to try and punish your group by using q times, then you're using your position as tank to hold the group hostage. And just plain being a dick.

Someone being immature towards you (like pulling extra stuff) does not give license to be immature to them ("well then screw u enjoy q times!"). All that means is that 2 people were immature instead of 1.

One of us is missing the point of the original comment that I quoted. Perhaps it is me, but to clarify -

Go ahead and pull mobs ahead of me when I'm tanking. I have other things to do and don't mind leaving. How's that extra time waiting fora replacement tank working for your speed run now?

I find it extremely confusing how people can wait in a queue for 10-15 minutes to get a party and then bitch because the dungeon could be done 2 minutes faster. If your time was that precious, you wouldn't tolerate waiting in the
queue in the first place.

I took this to be the following: If a group is so impatient that they are trying to force the tank's hand (pulling extra mobs, running ahead, etc), then the tank of course has the option to bail on them if they are not comfortable. The remaining group can waste additional time waiting for that replacement tank. Had the group just stayed with the original tank, they more than likely would have had the dungeon cleared by the time a rep shows up.

And I would say that if a group is being immature, or rude, or anything that you don't find to your liking, you OF COURSE have the option to ditch them and they can deal with the consequences. This goes for any role, any time. There is no reason why anyone should stay in a group they don't like. That decision is completely subjective. Just don't pull the whole "kick me, or I'm going to afk here indefinitely unti you do". If you want to leave, you eat the penalty.

Personally, I stick things out as I find most people are trying and just want to clear content.

What if I want passable dps? Or a whm that knows what holy is? I can't do all 4 roles myself, so expecting some degree of competency from my party members isn't so much to ask.

I don't want to tank. Not because it's high stress (it's really not). I did it for years. I'm tired of it. I'm not gonna do it just because so many other people are bad at it. It's not what I enjoy. Why does that mean I don't get any say in how my group's handle stuff? I'm still 1/4 of the party regardless.

But apparently that means I'm saying people should be assholes in game -.-

A tank who is keeping hate, but pulling at a slower pace is doing their job. That's the bottom line. If you only want to run with speed-runing tanks, holy-WHMs and awesome DPS, form your own static. Expecting spectacular groups from DF who are all on the same page is setting yourself up for a bad time. Some groups in DF are cool, some are a bit rough around the edges. That's just how it's going to be when running with random players of varying skill levels.

And i wasn't saying you are giving hte green-light to be assholes to be people in game. That was more a general comment for this thread. Many people feel it's just fine to berate anyone not up to their standards, and that is just stupid.

[SonKevin]

There's no such thing as a normal pace.

If people are still gonna argue that slow pulls are how the devs designed it, then come with a dev quote.

Apparently you haven't played the newer dungeons where they created locks so you couldn't grab the entire first half of the dungeon at once.

[Suirieko]

Really? You think that was just tanks leaving those duties? That's pretty pathetic.

I've seen far more majority of tanks leaving than any other jobs (and other people in other classes leave, but they're generally quick to replace). In fact, yesterday I was leveling my ninja and doing The Aery, and before the dungeon even loads, the tank left. So we just make did and proceed through Sohm Ai with just three people (Scholar, Bard and myself, Ninja) even managing to beat the first boss. It took about 15 minutes for another tank to show up.

So forgive me when I'm cynical, when it comes to self-righteous tanks that think they're shit just because they think they're a rare commodity.